site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 22, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

As far as I can tell, it's really just organized groups within these hobbies that have the political slant. I'm sure you could say something about long hikes marches through institutions, but I don't think it's necessarily swung the hobby as a whole. To point to your video game example, the game development studios, journalism, and awards groups are quite leftist, but the median gamer generally doesn't care while playing the latest Assassins of Duty.

I don't play in public servers much, but has random voice chat improved that much from being full of slurs a decade ago? I think that's true of hiking too: the median participant is just hitting the trails, not reading about how the backcountry isn't diverse enough, regardless of their feelings on the matter. The median quilt group is a bunch of old church ladies, even if the media coverage is woke. Everyone right-of-center doesn't just sit around doing nothing all day, even if they aren't catching up on the best board games to play based on politically-issued awards.

I guess that line of thought is that the rebellion that happened in video games could easily happen elsewhere. It might take a different form, since not all audiences should be expected to react like the average gamer circa 2015 (young, male) quietly unsubscribing and continuing the hobby with their friends, making alternate groups, or just sighing and getting along begrudgingly.

You know, embedded in a conservative filter bubble, 0% of the people I know would seek out a new part of their favorite hobby(whether that be games, novels, what have you) on the basis of awards. For the 800 lb gorilla in the room, I think that’s why country music has such woke awards out of step with the audience- conservatives ignore the awards, and the people who watch the awards shows without being paid liberals with little preexisting interest in country music, but who will buy a song to support an emerging black artist or whatever.

I think it’s got a lot to do with how liberals like to take advantage of meta spaces that people use to talk about stuff. Most conservatives I know have almost no interest in the meta game of their hobby unless they have a specific question. A gamer looking for help in a game or wanting better gear for their sport pops in, asks the question and leaves. So the people who sit around talking about the activities all day would tend to be liberals and thus be better equipped to enforce their wills on the hobby or at least the hobby meta game.

I mean, boating and hunting forums are as much pro-Trump politics as they are boating and hunting… but outdoor gear awards tend to be geared towards the liberal side of the things they’d get used for.