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Democrats claim “we are the party of protecting democracy.” Yet their actions — taken from the big view — show they are full of shit. I don’t really care too much about democracy qua democracy but democrats hypocrisy on the issue is legitimate.
The other potential concern for republicans is that there can be a honeymoon phase for candidates. If playing this shell game benefits the Dems, the. Republicans are right to call foul play.
C'mon, both parties claim they are the party of democracy and America and puppies.
You can go for the "Democrats are hypocrites" angle, but no one's going to care since they didn't break any laws and unless you can prove someone literally held Biden's hand and forged his signature, they didn't even break their own rules. The candidate is actually allowed to withdraw, even if his opponents would prefer that he didn't.
Yeah, there it is, the real issue. Of course you'd prefer the Democrats just lose, and of course they are going to look for a way not to lose.
You found me out! I want the Dems to lose. Yes. True. Every word. That doesnt mean everything the republicans can do from now until November is legit. I’m saying this is not legit; changing horses mid stream simply because you think you’ll lose is unprecedented and therefore presumptively illegitimate unless there is a good argument. So far, the only thing you’ve claimed is “the parties are about winning.” But that’s untrue — they are about winning within a system.
Legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder. If Democratic voters accept it then it is by definition legitimate.
The sysyem for how the Democrat party picks its candidates is wholly controlled by the Democrat party. The only people they have to convince are their voters. Thats it. There is no other measure.
This isn’t true. There are aspects controlled by state law and FEC. It isn’t just an internal manner.
But you said above you weren't talking about legality, just legitimacy, because currently they haven't broken any laws right?
Is your position now as long as they don't break any laws, whoever they pick is legititimate?
No—the point re the above is to point out the process is not just an internal matter. This isn’t just “well the Dems can pick whoever in whatever manner you want — why are you complaining about an internal party approach.”
And my response is there must be some reason why we’ve done things this way for well over fifty years. There must be some reason why the elections are run by state governments (kind of odd that the state regulated the election for the Dems when the stated position is “it’s just an internal matter.) and the reason is it isn’t just an internal manner. One of who the republicans and democrats pick will be president. The primary is supposed to be some form of internal quality control (a mini pressure cooker before the general pressure cooker). The Dems charted a path where they knew they might need to replace Biden but because they thought they could win choose to eschew the mini pressure cooker for the replacement candidate (and indeed if they had that mini pressure cooker it never would’ve been Harris). So now because the Dems failed, the country is left with the real possibility Harris will be president. That’s a real problem.
And I can equally say that the Republican convention picking a convicted felon is a real problem*, which the Republicans have now done and therefore they are breaking their own established norms and there must have been some reason they don't pick criminals, right? And thus the internal quality control performed by the Republicans is hopelessly compromised. But the truth it is is doesn't matter whether I think that, only whether Republicans accept the outcome or do not. As long as it was done legally, it is entirely up to Republicans to pick their candidate.
If I say that Trump is an illegitimate pick due to the above will that change your mind suddenly? Assuming not, why would you think Democrats will in the reverse situation?
*I don't actually think Trump is a bad candidate, but pretty clearly picking an convicted felon is highly unusual for them.
I’m saying we have had for a very long time a process by which we picked candidates. Republicans utilizing that process picked their candidate.
The democrats used that process, decided they didn’t like it, and are now creating a new process post hoc.
The two are just not the same.
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That's not how laws work.
What law do you think is being broken here?
Who said anything about laws? Illegitimacy is not about law but custom and norms. The fact you are approaching it from a legal perspective is explaining in part why we can’t seem to see eye to eye.
My mistake - I misread your above post and thought you wrote "illegal" and not "illegitimate."
That said, "legitimacy" is perhaps a concern for Democrats, but legitimacy in the eyes of people who want them lose anyway is probably not.
It goes to the whole process. There is 45% chance (give or take) that the dem candidate will become president. If there was an irregular process, then are we comfortable with the outcome?
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