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Culture War Roundup for the week of July 15, 2024

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I disagree. Wanting Trump dead is political. But a line has to be drawn somewhere, and you draw it here. I feel it's arbitrary.

Line where free speech ends and crime begins had been drawn, in US, as "incitement to imminent lawless action".

"Billy Bob deserves to be hanged" - free speech.

"Here lives Billy Bob, go and hang him!" - incitement.

Yeah. Saying, "too bad the shooter missed" isn't incitement, so the employee shouldn't be fired.

If the person she posted about wasn’t famous in any way, would you still see it as “just an opinion?” If she saw news about a drunk uncle getting robbed at gun point and said “so sad the shooter missed,” it’s hard to see this as anything other than wanting them dead. And I think in either case, the same thing — businesses are perfectly free to have policies that forbid violence or threats of violence.

businesses are perfectly free to have policies that forbid violence or threats of violence

There was no actual violence or even incitement of violence in what the Home Depot lady said. You implicitly acknowledged this by making your hypothetical non-political since wishing a politician's death is just another political opinion.

If the person she posted about wasn’t famous in any way, would you still see it as “just an opinion?”

Trump is not just any person. This comparison doesn't make sense because Trump is literally the presidential nominee. The opinion expressed about Trump's shooting is a political one.

You specifically stated that political expression should be tolerated. If you were to adhere to monarchist, communist, or Nazi beliefs, you would be advocating for even more violence. And this would be actual violence, not just wishing someone be dead.

To make the equivocation you want to make, this "drunk uncle" would have to be himself at fault for getting robbed. The uncle, after getting drunk at the local pub, looking for a fight, approached some guy on the street. But he messed with the wrong guy and got himself robbed at gunpoint.

What your hypothetical person would say is, "fuck around and find out." Because this is what many liberals believe.

The Home Depot lady, like many liberals, likely believes that Trump is a threat to democracy and that he is responsible for the current state of political affairs. Trump is at fault for destabilizing politics and, consequently, almost getting himself assassinated.

From this point of view then, it makes sense to wish that the sniper had not missed. Trump fucked around and found out (almost). It would have only been fair.

The Home Depot lady, like many liberals, likely believes that Trump is a threat to democracy and that he is responsible for the current state of political affairs. […] Trump fucked around and found out (almost). It would have only been fair.

The problem is that our current political situation is not the fault of one single ex-real-estate-mogul-cum-reality-TV-star-cum-President. It is the fault of the sum of the actions and reactions of millions of Americans (and foreigners) on both sides, spurred by concerns material and ideological. Part of the blame rests on Trump. Part of the blame rests on liberals who are so quick to condemn democracy to save Democracy that they encourage assassinations of former Presidents/current candidates.

So going by the Home Depot lady’s logic (or rather, your logic): she is part of the problem responsible for the current state of political affairs. She fucked around and found out. Her losing her job is only fair.

Do you see the problem with this sort of approach to politics?

So going by the Home Depot lady’s logic (or rather, your logic): she is part of the problem responsible for the current state of political affairs. She fucked around and found out. Her losing her job is only fair.

No, OP said that expressing political opinions should not get you fired. This is the assumption we're operating from.

The only discussion we can have here is whether or not wishing the death of a political figure is tantamount to violence. (It's not)

That's enough to conclude the employee shouldn't be arrested; not enough to conclude the employee shouldn't be fired. If Billy Bob is among your customer base and there's now only one way to make him feel safe walking down your rope aisle then maybe you do what you need to for him to feel safe.

IIRC the (ex-)Home-Depot lady didn't even go that far, it was more like "Billy Bob's favorite candidate deserves to be hanged", with Billy (and his compatriots) in no danger, but it's still defensible for a judgement call to land somewhere in between "we should just ignore this" and "we need to call the cops right now".

Being a communist will upset some customers too; however, it shouldn't get you fired. OP stated that employees' political expression should be protected as long as it doesn't "affect your ability to do your actual job":

I think not only should it not get you fired, but it should be protected with the same sort of rules that religion gets — you shouldn’t be able to fire liberals or conservatives for simply stating something you disagree with...

I do not think that the Home Depot lady's opinions affected her job performance. If, instead of saying that the shooter shouldn't have missed, she had expressed literally any other political opinion, I assume OP would have defended her.

But OP's standards for who to fire suddenly change here. This political expression is out of bounds. But why?

Politics will inevitably make some customers uncomfortable. If you decide that employees have the right to express their political opinions, then you, as an employer and business owner, will have to just suck it up and deal with the uncomfortable customers.

This one includes an implied threat of violence. I don’t think it’s that hard to follow. Most companies already covered this in their “zero tolerance for violence and threats” policy.

I also don’t think I’m defending politics at work. This was her own private page, and to my knowledge she wasn’t going around talking about politics to everyone who walked up to her area. On the clock, I would expect anyone checking people out to stick to business and not harass people with political opinions.

Just to be clear. My policy in a perfect world would be that employees opinions posted on their own social media on their own devices on their own time are none of my business unless they promote or condone violence. The only exception would be public roles (media or marketing directors, C-suite, paid actors) or people making hiring decisions directly related to the political opinions they’re giving.

This one includes an implied threat of violence. I don’t think it’s that hard to follow.

If it’s not that hard to follow, please explain it to me, because I don’t see any implied threat of violence here.

If you were assaulted at gunpoint, and I posted on Facebook the next day that I’m “very sad the shooter missed,” would you feel threatened by this?

No.

Then you are weird enough that your reactions should not be used as a guide for rules dealing with ordinary people.