site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 15, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Give her a week, see how the Congressional testimony shakes out.

If the SS was neither incompetent nor malicious, they should be able to provide evidence for what they were thinking. I expect that either 1) they didn’t actually sight Crooks, 2) they thought he was a friendly, or 3) they judged him nonthreatening enough to investigate (or make the locals investigate) rather than shoot.

Having been around right wing rallies, I think people are way underestimating how common and overestimating how actionable "Guy with rangefinder/AR" actually is in retrospect. Obviously should not be allowed anywhere near Trump, but there you are.

I've seen speculation that the snipers were expecting a long-range threat, and so were set up with high-magnification scopes that may have made target acquisition and ID difficult at close range. I'm skeptical, but it's something to consider.

They didn't have spotters due to staffing issues.

Apparently the shooter wasn't as amateurish as originally believed and he stashed the gun near the shooting spot.

Otoh, again, closest possible shooting spot, and they overlooked it.

Not only did they overlook it, they overlooked it while the crowd was pointing and shouting, while the police responded and confronted the shooter, and while the shooter not only aimed, not only fired, but fired repeatedly. Like, it's one thing for them to miss the guy. It's another thing for them to miss the guy, while a significant portion of the crowd is pointing at him and shouting that there's a guy there.

Elsewhere in the thread someone quoted ABC news, in turn quoting the Butler county sheriff, who confirmed the story of Crooks being confronted by an officer just before firing.

To have that confrontation, the "sense" to ignore the cop and make those shots at 150 yards with iron sights--no adrenaline pumping, no jitters? Crooks must have been a crack shot with frozen veins. I guess I assume a second shooter wouldn't miss (+ all the other questions that raises), because otherwise that explanation would make far more sense than "random schizo is as coolheaded as scout sniper."

There's a quote popularized by the Wheel of Time: "Duty is heavier than a mountain, Death lighter than a feather."

Much of fear and anxiety come from uncertainty. He may have come to the mental conclusion he was going to get popped after taking the shot and as a result calmed down immensely, making things easier. This is how some people response to stressful situations by nature. Emergency training of all kinds is designed to get people to this point but some people already have it, and it's not always who you'd expect (ex: I've seen nervous wreck seeming med students respond to their first code and absolutely kill it....and then turn around and start blubbering as soon as the emergency was over).

Yeah, danger does work like that for some people. I'm the calmest, most concentrated and least-panicky in a potentionally violent situation and for several minutes afterwards. I start shaking, sometimes uncontrollably some minutes after.

IRL, I'm pretty absent minded and really not someone who can concentrate well, however, risk of immediate violence does make me concentrate amazingly well for a short while.

Some people be that way. You can train for it and should (and emergency workers of various kinds do) but some people just got it. Unfortunately it often comes with the adrenaline dump afterwards as you note.