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Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

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Once you have a conception of spacetime, you can reframe "a sperm near an egg" as a form in spacetime

You don't understand what a form is. The four causes don't depend on scientific understanding. They are a human truth, that when we say Why or How we mean four different things.

A "form in spacetime" doesn't really mean anything, or at least is so general that you can't really claim anything moral about it on its own.

An organism has an organizing principle that is distinct from the organizing principle of the egg and sperm. You have an organizing principle that has been the same since conception, even if you don't recognize it.

Edit: your ship of Theseus example just kind of show how you keep talking about a different How. The ship of Theseus is an example of swapping out a Material cause while keeping the Formal Cause the same.

I don't think I misunderstand forms.

The central cases of formal causes are, geometric proofs right? I'm saying that since 134981765480 and 134981765481 are mathematically distinct, a rudder made out 134981765480 atoms is formally distinct from a rudder made out of 134981765481 atoms. If you abstract and zoom in just a little, everything can be framed as a form. Material differences become differences in electron shells with formal electrodynamic implications.

Any 'human truth' that disregards this difference is really just a 'human heuristic' that evolved for a reason.

is "I care about this change because it's formally different" the real, base reason for any belief? Why is "this" formal shift one we care about and not the 134981765480 atoms to 134981765481 atoms formal shift. This isn't a trick question. In the case of rudders it's clear that these changes in form don't change the ability to steer. It's clear that formal changes that affect the implications relating to crossing the ocean on this vessel, are the aspects of form we care about, and are the aspects of form we simplify our description of these objects to. For Zygotes I expect there is also a real and valid answer. I would just like to find that answer. Final causes seem more suited to give me the sort of answer that I'm expecting than formal causes.

Nothing is stagnant, microforms are always changing. Not all microformal changes matter, many get glossed over in our language on purpose. I can see why this formal shift is crucial to the reproductive cycle such that it merits it's own name. 'Conception' is a perfectly cromulent name. But this isn't an explaination of why this formal shift is more sacred than the formal shift from other structures to sperm or the formal shift that produces eggs or the formal shifts in the 'distance from sperm to egg geometric relation'.

You don't need to justify anything to me. You can just value what you value. But I think these values are historically subsequent to zygotes being an investment. As zygotes become less of an investment and more copyable I suspect ethics will evolve to value them less.

I'm saying that since 134981765480 and 134981765481 are mathematically distinct, a rudder made out 134981765480 atoms is formally distinct from a rudder made out of 134981765481 atoms.

I don't think I agree with that. They have different materials. I would say they both share the form of a rudder. The material is not the form. Maybe this image helps clarify?

Any 'human truth' that disregards this difference is really just a 'human heuristic' that evolved for a reason.

Well, we are talking about human morality here, and why a human understands one situation to be moral and another not to be moral.

Maybe try to apply it to something else, like the difference between a bullet in the chamber and a bullet two inches from your brain. It's like you're saying, "both situations are different forms of space-time, so why would one have moral significance from another?" But that would be generalizing out past the point of morality. Morality lies in the interplay between ideas and substances, not on the level of string vibrations where all is equal.

If you look at the situation rightly, you would recognize that a bullet heading towards your brain has a significance that a bullet in a chamber does not. And likewise, if you look at the difference between gametes and zygotes, you will see the difference of moral significance.