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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   28384 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 24, 2024

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My takes are highly partisan, your takes are... neutral and objective?

I wasn't really talking about my takes here, though yes, I do think I am less partisan and more objective than you.

I don't think you are understanding me Mayne you want to reflexively defend the Motte.

I don't reflexively defend the Motte - I have a lot of criticisms of the discourse here. I just don't think your criticism is accurate.

I am arguing that there is a lot of discussion along the lines of...,: -- "Besides that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

Well, the general consensus is that Biden did very, very badly but for all that Nate Silver seems to think Trump is virtually a shoo-in, people have been dramatically wrong about how an election will turn out before, so if you want everyone to just settle on the consensus agreement "Biden lost and the election is over," I am not surprised you aren't seeing that.

If Biden is in serious decline, why would you "dissect what he actually said"? How is that not an act in rationalizing?

Because it matters how serious the decline is. If he is (as some people seem to think) virtually non-compos mentis and only able to handle public appearances with serious drugs, that's different than if he's still more or less got all his marbles and has just slowed down a lot. If he's still functional but declining, then what he believes (and would do) as President matters. If he's a zombie being puppeted by his handlers, then no, what he says probably doesn't matter.

You seem to have misunderstood my argument as something dumb like, "Joe Biden is senile and poops in his pants and Trump is awesome the motte suxxxx hahahahaha BTGO".

What I'm telling you is that your objectivity doesn't exist, and debates are fake and gay, and I want to see Trump and Biden gorilla smash funhouse wrestlemania. I want us to stop reading fact-check statslop fanfic and pick up some Byron or Keats. I want to watch Rocky and Drago slug it out until somebody dies. I want to see Trump yelling. I want to see Biden yelling. I don't care about whatever some focus-tested Dem-Rep slogan-pollster convinced Biden to say. I don't care about made-up technical details. It's beneath my dignity to be manipulated.

Thinking empty things isn't thinking.

It's beneath my dignity to be manipulated. Thinking empty things isn't thinking.

Well said.

I loathe fact checking. So many times the fact checkers are wrong, or take claims that obviously are claims of opinions as testable fact, or focus overly literally. It isn’t an honest enterprise.

I don't think anyone is truly "objective", but not everyone wants the same thing. You want wrestlemania; fine. I care about facts, even if those aren't the things that win elections. The Motte leans more towards the latter, and "debates are fake and gay" I can get on Twitter.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


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