site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 24, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

You ask me, the more relevant psych study is the Asch Conformity Experiments.

Those have also held up better to replication.

Check out how the results change when you add in a fellow dissenter.

Hence, Elon being a very visible source of open dissent could trigger a lot of others to cease conforming.

Hence, Elon being a very visible source of open dissent

More visible than the fricking President of the United States? Not only did Trump have a bigger bully pulpit than Musk, his being elected was a very public single that tens of millions of normies liked what he was saying. DorseyTwitter didn't ban Trump until after Jan 6th.

Even if you ignore Trump, right-wing views that the NYT considered cancellable (e.g. "Blacks do most of the crime", "Transwomen are men" or "Hunter Biden is selling out America") were mainstream on Fox, in the WSJ and NY Post, on talk radio and on Boomer Facebook. The idea that the right was operating by samizdat until Elon bought Twitter is silly. (HBD was beyond the pale in those right-wing venues, but unobfuscated HBD still doesn't fly on ElonTwitter).

Twitter wasn't important because the masses were on Twitter. Twitter was important because aspirant elites who needed to publicly push the party line used Twitter to work out what the party line was in real time. These people . That the sort of person who had a bluecheck on DorseyTwitter hasn't changed their political views is convincing evidence that Elon buying Twitter isn't what is changing the discourse.

The simplest explanation (not necessarily the most correct one) for woke losing ground is that the elites are much more equivocal in supporting it after 10/7 when it became clear that wokestupid can turn anti-Semitic at the drop of a paraglider.

More visible than the fricking President of the United States?

...Yes.

The president's "visibility" was limited in every possible way by the leftist media apparatus. I mean, cmon - he was banned from twitter.

When CNN couldn't avoid covering him at all, they showed spliced single-digit-second clips sandwiched in between minutes of talking-head diatribes.

Fox's power as a sympathetic outlet is minimal. It's been unpalatable to anyone in the moderate space forever. Even if you agree with some of the points, it's not any better. The diatribes are far rougher around the edges - they feel simultaneously more hateful and pandering. And when you're done with those you have to sit through ads for adult diapers.

The bully pulpit became far less bully in those Unprecedented Times.

Paying attention to "Faux News" or the New York Post puts you outside the bounds of respectability the way browsing Twitter/X does not. And of course Twitter/X is a two-way medium, at least in theory.

Trump has been a double-edged sword in terms of being a symbol of resistance to the blue tribe's dominance.

I guess if you want to break it down some, Trump is the totem around which Red tribe can coordinate, Musk is a similar totem for the Grey tribe that lean red or are just anti-blue.