site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 17, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I feel your pain. It reminds me of the Please Drink Verification Can copypasta. The new captcha's I've been facing have been particularly annoying, requiring me to click images that slowwwwwly reappear in a way designed to infuriate humans more than to ward away bots.

The problem with online anonymity is that it's only valued by a handful of libertarians, and millions of bots, pirates, scammers, and other unsavory individuals. Since most normies don't care about being anonymous, the vast majority of companies don't care either, and only see it as problem.

Since most normies don't care about being anonymous, the vast majority of companies don't care either, and only see it as problem.

They care about the exactly proper odds ratios -- out of X people that do action Y, Z% are bad actors.

One of the simplest and easiest ways to ward off bots, scammers, and trolls is to institute an minor inconvenience that disproportionately effects bad-faith-actors. Most normal users will think nothing of an enforced 30 second delay between login attempts or captcha inputs because they're only logging in so often anyway.

In contrast the scammer running a bot-net or the tumblr-troll hopping between multiple sock-puppets is definitely going to notice.

On the upside, this stuff hits people who aren't that focused on anonymity. The SO is an absolute normie for anonymity purposes, and is driven absolutely up the walls by a lot of the constant push for 'human verification' that doesn't work, and running normies at work through gov 2FA setups have made me and them want to strangle people.

It's a rather shitty silver lining to The Cloud, but I think there's a bigger alliance of People Pissed Off By Bullshit than one of Libertarians and Scammers.

((I've also been getting questions that are weirdly philosophical. Nothing quite at the level of 'what is good', but 'what counts as a sign' sorta way.))

These are the product of trying to use captchas as ai training data which i find both terrifying and weirdly reassuring in a way.