100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
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User ID: 2039
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
but the issue is that many, if not most, of the ways we describe the social role of men are in some sense zero sum, and in such an environment there will be social defeat.
I believe this to be true right now in our very fucked up social reality, but there's a ton of historical prescription for how to remedy this.
Male only small groups.
The last remnants of this today are found in the military. You can be totally average across the board and even below average in a few things and still be considered to be a "good marine" if you just get the basics right; show up on time, clean uniform, clean rifle, Yes Sir, No Sir, can exeucte orders. You may not ever progress up the hierarchical ladder, but you can still enjoy the esteem of your peers and superiors within the group because you're a net benefit, however small, to the overall group mission.
Hyperindividualism turns this "collective net benefit" into an adversarial ranking in which you are competing both with the defined "enemy" (who is preventing you from accomplishing your mission) and within the group itself for status.
People bemoans the lack of "loyalty" from companies to their employees, even long tenured ones. It's worth noting that this concept was its strongest when the workforce was still strongly majority male.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
I agree with what you say here and in many other posts.
The biggest single policy device would be to end no-fault divorce and to make adultery a crime (perhaps without incarceration time).
"Til death do you part" has to mean what it says.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
jailbroken woman
Thank you for this bon mot.
despite having intentionally optimized for finding such a girl
Any tips for the young trad turboautists on the bored to replicate your success?
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
Can you maybe offer, at least, some perspective or background on why you feel this way?
Right now, this post is just three or so "boo outgroup" assertions.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
goes to the Bahamas to cry on a cruise ship
Don't get a Bahamas mourning wife, get you a St. Barts mourning wife.
Got a few million? / start chasin a billion.
Aim higher, king.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
which is now being taken by a young floozy.
My research into step-children on various adult oriented documentary websites suggests this outcome is often welcomed by the male heirs.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
but when she's 65 and at the age when most people are looking to enjoy their retirement, he's going to be at the age when most people are looking at assisted living.
This thread also made me think about just this.
I wonder if we won't see some sort of "divorce of love" memetic concept develop. That, in age-gap relationship, the elder partner, once they hit say 80 or so, permits the other partner to date freely again in order to spare them of unintentional hospice nurse status.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
I agree that this is probably just a rationalization. If the couple consists of a man and woman who are from two very different ethno-cultural backgrounds, I doubt you would hear this objection.
This is gold. Seriously.
"Age-gaps, am I right"
"ohmygod yesssssss uggghhh"
"Miscegenation, am I right"
"..."
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
Most "redpill" pickup artist advice basically boils down to "find an emotional unstable and needy women. Then, use these tactics to manipulate her into sleeping with you."
If that's the strategy a guy chooses, he's going to overexpose himself to emotionally unstable and needy women. It makes sense that would create a false perception of the median woman and therefore lead to a lot of misogyny despite the "success" of the pickup artist.
The corollary to that is strippers. (Side note: I should do my effortpost on strippers). Having dated a few of them in my pre-Jesus days, they all develop a cynical misandry-lite because so many of their male interactions are with drunk men attempting to do or say nasty things to them. Strippers do have an extra cognitive dissonance; many, many of them are hardcore progressives who believe what they're doing is "sexual empowerment" manifest. That this, in reality, entails literally crawling around naked for money thrown at them by cro-magnons means their mental model of the world is much like a snake eating its own tale tail.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
Makes sense. It's men playing indirect chess with one another via their daughters. Yes, very patriarchal but actively with the intent of a better, or, at least, better risk adjusted outcome for their daughters.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
That's a better examination of it. Thanks.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
as a practical matter, a lot of women really don't actually like the fruits of the sexual revolution.
Agreed, and I'll take it further (farther?)
A lot of men don't either. The very heavy movie Shame is somewhat about this. Although it's further down the line and gets into themes of real sex addiction, the movie can also be seen as the emptiness that comes from being a really rich and hot dude who sleeps with whoever he wants.
This post is an excellent summary of how many, many of the online "pickup artists" have success across a decade or more and bed perhaps hundreds or thousands of women ... and then lose their fucking minds.
To me, it's almost a "fish don't know what water is because they live in it" situation in terms of how obviously sexual libertinism is actively harmful to 99% of humans and the 1% who it does "work for" are pretty much sexual pathologists who we should highlight as cautionary tales for mental disorders instead of "liberated" heroes.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
Like a 40 year old who only wants to date people 18-20? Pretty suspicious.
For a male....No? Nothing at all suspicious.
20 - 30 is objectively when women are most physically attractive to men of all ages. When I was in 8th grade I had Megan Fox or whoever - that is, women older than me as objects of fantasy. My Dad remembers 1990s Cindy Crawford - younger than him then (and, now, too fwiw).
How is this suspicious?
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
power [...] differential
Can you define this for me? What does "power differential" mean in the Western context?
Is this like the Dragonball-Z thing where power levels are quantifiable?
Because, to my understanding, in most (all?) western nations, men and women have totally equivalent rights. There's a lot and, somehow, growing legislation in the U.S. to guarantee this. Where exactly is the extra or additional "power" that a husband has over his wife?
Money? Well, ok. If the wife decided to rely on the man to pay for everything isn't that like her decision? It's not like bridestealing is legal.
Age? Even more of a "wha?" from me. Do old guys get magic powers at 50 that let them bamboozle young maidens? Do women under the age of 30 not have their full faculties developed yet (wait, don't answer that. Yass queen slay at any age).
The entire "power dynamic" or "power differential" trope seems absurd to me. Obviously couples often have one partner who is domineering and authoritative. I don't think that's a good thing but the antidote to that is telling both men and women to not let their partner walk all over them. Furthermore, are there also copious examples of couples loving and respecting one another despite massive actual power imbalances? Isn't that kind of the point of a lot of traditional marriage rituals and covenants?
"Power dynamic" seems to be yet another instance of suicidal absolution in which we tell mostly women - "Oh, you have no agency in your own relationship (that you entered into voluntarily) but that's okay because (somehow) this awful, awful man is using his power differential to "gaslight" you."
Either women over 18 (or 20? 21? 25?) have legally and socially incontestable ability to make and abide by their own decisions or else we have to start taking the crazies' "make women property" argument seriously.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
I don't understand what you are saying.
EDIT: nvm. You're a weird troll who is seconds away from another permaban. Sorry for misunderstanding.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
(Replying to the meat of your post)
Good writeup, but you've wasted your considerable analytic ability on a topic that's explained, sadly, by something basic and ugly.
Female jealousy.
(Relatively) older women who really have a problem with AGRs are disproportionately not in any relationship whatsoever. Ask a married woman and you'll get a shrug and, at most, "Yeah, I guess maybe it's a little old. Whatever." The only exception to this rule is if said married women is deep into the progressive left or socially hectoring right.
The intrasexual competition dynamics for women are different than men. Middle aged husbands don't really fear that Chad the pool boy is going to seduce their wife after three kids have done three-kids worth of damage to her body. In terms of direct competition, it's hilarious to envision a situation in which that same Chad confronts the husband at Buffalo Wild Wings and goes, _"Hey, brah! Just want to let you know I'm coming after that sweet Karen you got at home." If such an implausible situation were to occur, I'd bet heavily on the Husband countering with a Dad Joke along the lines of "....Do you promise? Garage code is 1234." [Footnote 1]
This is not the same with older vs younger women. Go to a wedding. Watch a bridesmaid talk totally-non-flirtatiously (seriously) with one of the Husband milling about searching for good finger food and free beer. If that young lady fucks up does the "arm touch" after a Dad Joke, you can actually hear his Wife's radar lock onto the young harpy. The trope of "he left me and married his secretary" was so strong for so long because it was fucking real. Geographic proximity plus regular interaction plus basic physical attraction = relationship.
AGR discrimination is female mate guarding at about the same level as classic slut shaming. Basic stuff.
Footnote 1: This is the present situation in the West. This probably used to be less of the case. In classic / ancient literature, there is a common archetype of a young, righteous warrior or prince fighting the evil old king to then capture (willingly that is, as in a prize) the kept Queen / Princess. This likely reflects the reality that young up and comers might actually try to ace (as in kill) the current powerful male in the local clan / tribe / what have you. However, this was also probably done for very cut and dry power and influence reasons - the Queen was a political asset. It was probably relatively unlikely the young upstart was actually romantically infatuated with the beleaguered lady monarch.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
Recently I read that a well respected football coach -- Bill Belichick -- was denied admission to the Football hall of fame based on the fact that he is in a romantic relationship with a woman who is much younger than him.
Pump the breaks. This is not the reason why he was denied his first attempt at the HOF.
First off, first ballot HOF isn't exactly rare, but it's a big deal. A lot of players get a non-negligible number of votes their first year of eligibility and then the next year, or even several years after, actually make it across the threshold. Belichicks' NFL career was, quantitatively and statistically, incredible. But he had some black marks against him. The Patriots had numerous credible accusations of cheating during the Brady-Belichick era. Furthermore, Belichick is a notorious asshole on a personal level. So much so that Tom Brady, starting last year, began granting open interviews where he states "Yeah, the coach I won six superbowls with actually was such a boner at the end I decided to GTFO."
At another level of analysis, some NFL fans - including me - aren't convinced Belichick was the mastermind coaching genius he gets credit for. The theory goes that Brady was really the "X factor" for the Patriots dynasty. The major piece of evidence in favor of this is that a 40+ year old Brady leaves the Patriots and then quickly wins the Superbowl with Tampa Bay against Patrick Mahomes in his prime.
All of that is aside the primary point imho - Belichick is an asshole and has been since long before he started dating the FemmeBot. In the NFL, the group of coaches who hang around for more than ten years is fucking tiny. They all know each other, they all know the owners (who are heavily involved in the HoF process). It is a High School popularity contest and people remember that one time 9 years ago when you were a dick to them at the party.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
After realizing that consistently successful investing/trading is to a very large degree a mental and emotional game.
Knew a career Wall Street guy who once said something to the effect of "If monks didn't take a vow of poverty, they would crush all of us" (can't remember the exact quote. It was more pithy).
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
Polanyi's The Tacit Dimension.non-amazon link.
Started it today and I like that it isn't written in the typical academic philosophy structure. Which is partially why, according to the forward, Polanyi never got any real traction within that community (in a relative sense; he was lecturing at a bunch of prestigious universities for decades).
I'm reading it in the context of "lol, is AI gonna make us all permanent serfs?" and, in that context, it's quite uplifting. "We can know more than we can say" and tradition, broadly defined, being not only advantageous but necessary to the true production and development of knowledge means the clankers, as effective as they are, can't actually cover the entire area of human-level problem spaces.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
I agree with this and think it applies even more broadly to a global personality type beyond just the sub-continent.
This shares an interesting with the Elon Musk Diablo controversy. The TLDR is that Elon went on Joe Rogan and randomly mentioned how he was ranked in the Top 10 of all online Diablo players. The internet rightly immediately went "lol. whut? How does the CEO of like 5 different mega companies have time to grind Diablo?" The ONLY way to get that high of a ranking is to grind. There is no giga-brained shortcut. You have to put in the hours. The immediate conclusion was that he was paying someone to ghost-play his account to boost ratings.
Well, Elon wanted to shut up the haterz and so live-streamed himself playing. It went as well as you would expect. A bunch of actual Diablo mega-grinders immediately pointed out tactics that Elon used that were dead giveaways that he didn't know what he was doing. IIRC, Elon eventually admitted that he did pay someone to grind for him.
Why in the hell would a literal centi-billionaire care so much about online video game rankings? Isn't it just enough to be the (future) Prince of Mars, the face of American rocketry, and to have had 14 - maybe 100 kids?
Elon and this Sharma lady both suffer from a personality deficiency where they don't actually model social esteem systems well. When a value system is totally objective and external - profit and less, share value, rocket re-use cost - their Autism engines get a turbo boost. But when it's more interpersonally subjective and based on relative-social status within niches (video games or, perhaps, dancing being excellent examples) they lose all bearing. I think it literally flips the "flight or fight" level of anxiety and they reflexively react by trying to "do the thing" at the same level of all-or-nothing that the dedicate to their primary pursuits.
These people don't have a real interpersonal or social core. The "sense of self" in a very immediate flesh and blood way isn't there. This is part of the genesis of the "Musk is an alien" memes. When he was on SNL he opined he may have autism or asperger's (self-diagnosed). Perhaps, but color be doubtful. I don't think it has anything to do with "brain chemistry" (a term I loathe) or even real-deal mental health (i.e. BPD, MDD, Schizo-class disorders). Instead, it's a socially rooted character underdevelopment that never was addressed precisely because they were hyper-indexing on whatever optimization problem was in front of them.
Elon musk and Ms. Sharma know that the piles of money they make are valuable because money can be exchanged for goods and services but they fail to make the domain transition and realize that having lots and lots and lots of money also creates real social value (and, if deployed correctly, political value as well. Musk has tried to do this but keeps fucking up because he truly doesn't get politics or government. His DOGE failure should be more heavily highlighted, IMHO).
As @urquan says, gamers are never going to "vibe" with MSFT because MSFT is an evil corporation that kills all the good games. And also makes them too, or whatever. The point is that the point isn't getting gamers to "like" you but to buy your products. Musk doesn't understand that Chinese EV buyers don't actually care if you can dance so long as you can sell them fucking robot EVs. These people aren't real because they don't conceive of themselves as totally human.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
6d ago
And you, dear reader, just spent two minutes reading about the completely unimportant opinions of a stranger on the internet.
What the hell else would you have me do with my time?
Go outside?
Talk to girls?
Improve myself?
Fuck outta here.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
9d ago
My phrasing was a little ambiguous. I believe you're correct.
The distinction I was trying to make was the idea that there ever were large amounts of people who, only because of online content, were then going out and performing radical actions in the real world.
Online "radicalization" leading to perpetual online schizo-ing is absolutely a mass level (ongoing) event.
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
10d ago
This, plus selection bias. Outside of the nordics, there are plenty of working class Euro kids who just don't go to school after 8th - 10th grade. And for the year they do attend, it's just several hours of goofing off before they can continue to goof off in their neighborhoods.
The U.S. has all kinds of truancy and mandatory education laws that vary by state and level of enforcement.
If school attendance was actually totally optional all the way through, I believe that by 9th grade or so, the U.S. would have far and away the top median scores of all nations.
She could've also stopped dating him, right?
"locked in by him" is written in - literally - the passive voice. How passive is this woman?
Every couple, before marriage, should absolutely sit down and have complete conversations about finances, divisions of responsibility, future plans (where to live), career expectations, etc. If there's a hard disagreement on something, this is a good time to walk away without signing the most consequential legal document of your life.
The woman you described above affirmatively agreed to every single item you listed by signing the marriage license. There is no power differential.
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