Corvos
4hr ago
It’s got to the point where literally every elderly relative I have left can tell a horror story about their treatment at the hands of the NHS. I wouldn’t go to the NHS for a serious problem if you paid me.
I can point you to the kind of abuses that take place when whites become an ethnic minority, such as the Pakistani child rape ring in Rotherham:
The abuse included gang rape, forcing children to watch rape, dousing them with petrol and threatening to set them on fire, threatening to rape their mothers and younger sisters, as well as trafficking them to other towns.[21] There were pregnancies (one at age 12), pregnancy terminations, miscarriages, babies raised by their mothers, in addition to babies removed, causing further trauma.[22][23][24][25]
A survivor of the Rotherham Grooming Gang Scandal, Ella Hill, described the serious racial abuse she faced by her attackers - “As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white c***” as they beat me.”[28]
Or the ethnic cleansing that befalls Christians in so many Muslim-dominated countries, or the unofficial anti-white quotas that are now present at every level in the UK and hold back many talented white men because they have the wrong skin colour (no, I can’t provide sources, obviously).
I doubt that any of this will cut any ice with you whatsoever. You’ve come to the table with the extreme-until-yesterday proposal that absolutely everyone gets to go absolutely everywhere, and people objecting to being made minorities in their own homelands are racist because they lose fewer utilons than, say, Indian people gain. I’m sorry, I’m not interested in earning persecution points until you decide I get to have my country back.
From now on, anyone who wants my support for anything has to earn it. You want my support for a feminist initiative? Great, let’s talk about what you can do to solve the problems I think men have. You want my support for an ethnostate for Jews? Fair, let’s talk about what you’re going to do for the native British. And I’m far from alone in this.
The first is if one values 'costs and benefits to someone of the same ethnicity as me' more highly than 'costs and benefits to someone of a different ethnic group'. This covers pretty much all of what 'racism' meant before the 'prejudice-plus-power' gerrymandering.
This is not what racism means, and not what it has ever meant. Otherwise every man who ever bought his child an ice cream instead of buying mosquito nets is racist. Racism, in the only sense I’ve ever heard the word, is hatred/contempt/loathing for a different race. Like calling Russians ‘orks’.
Corvos
3d ago
But if it boils down to a simple cost-benefit analysis, it seems entirely reasonable for white people (in my case, native British, I’ve written about my concerns re: looming minority status and the open glee of many immigrants about it elsewhere) to draw the cost-benefit differently to you.
Corvos
4d ago
Brits tried it with Suez (until being politely reminded that the only power they had was at the US’ pleasure for anti-Soviet reasons- Argentina was a gimme though
Right. Britain clearly does not have the power to make war on neighbouring (ie European) states, which is why it confuses me so much that OP claims otherwise. Argentina was purely defensive: the settlements are British and have been for centuries.
I was thinking especially of Susan Cooper’s The Dark is Rising trilogy, and to a lesser extent of people like Dianna Wynne Jones or Alan Garner’s Weirdstone of Brisengamen.
The magic in the Dark of Rising isn’t chaotic, but we aren’t told the rules. Some of the characters (the Old Ones) know how things work but one of the big themes is that even though the Old Ones are on our side and appear normal most of the time, their true knowledge make them as distant from us as the stars in the heavens.
The magic works for the reader because it’s not arbitrary. The author is very careful that the magic feels right rather than thinks right. And many of the plot points are foreshadowed by a rhyme that runs through the whole series, so that people aren’t surprised when they turn up.
In general I think that old English fantasy tended to run much more heavily on imagery and allegory, and was generally written by students of ancient languages (Norse and Welsh, usually). Modern fantasy seems to be written by nerds and feels much more like engineering code (reaching an apogee in the LitRPG genre). None of this is bad, obviously, but I feel that something has been lost.
When the Dark comes rising, six shall turn it back:
Three from the circle, three from the track,
Wood, bronze, iron; water, fire, stone;
Five will return, and one go alone.
Iron for the birthday, bronze carried long;
Wood from the burning, stone out of song;
Fire in the candle-ring, water from the thaw;
Six signs, the circle, and the grail gone before.
Fire on the mountain shall find the harp of gold,
Played to wake the sleepers, oldest of the old;
Power of the the Greenwitch, lost beneath the sea,
All shall find the light at last, silver on the tree.
Corvos
4d ago
the right to wage war on neighboring states. There are 5 countries with the de facto right to do this and 2 of them (Britain and France)
Eh? When did the Brits wage war on a neighbour post WW2? I assume you’re not talking about rearguard colonial stuff in the late 40s.
Personally I am very tired of powerful interest groups saying it’s okay to be hypocritical because of how oppressed they’ve been. If you’re not being oppressed now I don’t give a damn.
On the subject of Israel, I am happy to support the Jewish ethnic homeland exactly to the extent that they support mine. To the best of my knowledge, this is no support at best, but who knows? That could change.
Corvos
5d ago
given that there are ways to remove Imperius (e.g. Thief's Downfall) why everybody, e.g., entering Ministry of Magic is not automatically un-imperiused? Worst thing it does nothing.
True, I forgot this.
In general, I feel an urge to push back against the ‘rule-ification’ of fantasy. It’s become gospel that fantasy worlds should have systems with clear rules, and a certain amount of post-enlightenment tendency to assume that everything is explainable and amenable to engineering.
We can’t even engineer human social systems, or understand how brains work beyond very basic principles. Why would we be able to understand literal magic?
There are certain word choices that differ between classes. Using the words “toilet” or “posh” is a very clear indicator that you aren’t upper or upper middle class.
Washing your hands before eating and being generally obsessive over hygiene standards is middle class, while the upper class generally prefer shabby chic and pick up half-finished meat bones with their hands.
Steretypically, the middle classes are afflicted with status anxiety, and therefore obsess over getting things right. Witness the Dursleys scripting out dinner etiquette before Mr. Dursley’s boss arrives for dinner. Whereas etiquette for the upper classes is just ‘whatever the upper classes do’ so they don’t fuss about it too much.
A classic example is the very PMC Nick Clegg and his wife going to dinner with the the Camerons (the Prime Minister and his wife, as upper class as they get) and being shocked when Mrs. Cameron used cheap mayonnaise from a bottle instead of using something fancy or making it herself. Not needing status symbols is the status symbol.
Corvos
6d ago
There is very little reasoning on this earth that can stand up to the awesome power of “But I want to.”
There’s a difference between trying and getting it wrong, versus thinking you’re doing everyone a favour by failing to respect how people are supposed to behave. Trampling people’s boundaries is deeply disrespectful to them and shows poor character IMO.
I remember a tourist I met once at a Meetup; she immediately gave me a rather demeaning nickname, clearly intending it as a playful icebreaker. Frankly I was appalled. I tried to be nice and not hold it against her but I still remember it as a quintessential example of someone trying to leapfrog social customs and botching it.
weird that they didn't have means to detect somebody had been imperiused, but let's not dwell of that, HPs magic system is so full of plot holes
Also, sometimes you just can’t do stuff. Modern fantasy is very influenced by sci-fi and D&D, and readers expects thing to be rule-based, comprehensible, and amenable to experimentation. See for example all the silliness about playing rules-lawyer with genies.
I don’t think the deep HP magic runs on such modernist lines. It’s more like art: there are principles and the basics are straightforward but the complex stuff just isn’t, and you have to go by feel.
Corvos
6d ago
No, I agree with @SteveKirk here. The Weasleys have a noble background (they’re on the Black tapestry) and they’re well known as an old-established Pureblood family. Lucius Malfoy basically dislikes them for being traitors and letting the side down.
It’s noted several times that Mr. Weasley could have a lot more money and be a lot more influential if he were willing to toe the line. He has personal relationships with bigwigs and Department Heads like Bagman and Crouch.
Many of their children also get distinguished positions: Percy goes straight to the top of government and Bill has an important job in the biggest bank in Britain.
(I’m ignoring accents and going by the books, I never had much interest in the films).
Corvos
6d ago
Certainly I find that living in a foreign country is more relaxing in many ways because my social radar isn’t going off all the time.
Corvos
6d ago
More like Voldy eating them out of house and home :P Like Elizabeth I who destroyed political enemies by turning up with her retinue for two months.
Corvos
6d ago
People from big countries and open spaces seem to be more open and positive than people in more cramped conditions.
Corvos
6d ago
There is a sentiment I’ve heard many times from Americans abroad which boils down to, “don’t worry, I’m American, it’s fine to be informal”.
It’s well-meant but often comes off as demanding unearned intimacy, or worse as, “I’m not interested in playing your silly provincial status games”.
Corvos
6d ago
There was probably a scholarship boy hanging from a bannister by his underwear
Snape, I think. I can’t remember the flashback well but I think it’s implied that child!Snape comes from the bad end of town.
Corvos
6d ago
Yes, the Malfoys were evil aristos parleying old money and social status for influence.
Corvos
6d ago
I agree with pretty much everything here. I don’t think you can avoid politicising “how much is your work worth”, especially because liquid market conditions are something that has to be actively created and maintained through legal systems, economic systems, transport systems etc.
Corvos
6d ago
Sorry, I’m thinking out load and so not always clearly. What I mean is that I physically can’t spend more than my total salary on basic necessities. Society requires that basic necessities be cheaper than skilled/intellectual work - if they aren’t cheap, society doesn’t function and everyone has to be a subsistence farmer.
The more fundamental the work, the more we have to drive the price down for our civilisation to remain functional. More physical work is resistant to automation is various ways (robots can’t interact with complex objects / human environments so no robot nurses, truckers, shelf stackers etc.) and the end result is that you have many low-paid physical labourers who notice that they are being paid badly for doing very necessary jobs while others are being paid better for sending emails. Before, of course, these jobs were done by peasants and slaves, so you had the same problem.
I can’t see a better solution but it always causes problems for social cohesion imo.
Chatbots are interesting and have a lot of potential, but their dynamics can become a bit complex once you get into multi-chat conversations.
I know one person who’s deployed one as a full-fledged product. It solves a relatively simple problem and even then, babysitting it is giving him grey hairs.
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