ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
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User ID: 626
I would not generalise that modern, mainline feminists consider their critique to be a refinement of Marxism. I think that most academic feminists, if questioned, will grant that there is some Marxist influence on their thought - but that most will not see that thought as decisive, and most do not think of themselves as working in a Marxist school, or as part of the Marxist tradition.
That would require pretty low self-awareness. For example if you take either the pro- or anti-porn or prostitution feminists, they will both frame women as victims of capitalist exploitation. Arguably Marxism is the glue that holds all the factions you mentioned together.
The major figures of the Frankfurt School would reject wokism--ideologically and aesthetically, and in particular its focus on consumerist identity.
They had the opportunity to, but didn't. Just off the top of my head, Critical Race Theory kicked off around the time of the Civil Rights Act, and was indistinguishable from BLM from the start. I'm less sure of it, but I think even some of the people who developed it studied directly under the major figures of the Frankfurt School.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
But when my uncle goes on about how DEI departments are "cultural Marxism" I think that is nonsense words. That's "progressive liberalism"
How? Critical Race Theory explicitly stood against the liberal approach to race.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
And, when you look at the actual content of Frankfurt critiques, they don't overlap much, if at all, with woke ones.
If the venn diagram of Critical Theory and wokism isn't a circle, it's pretty damn close. Or are you saying Critical Theory is not related to the Frankfurt School at all?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
5d ago
That was an example to demonstrate the principle at work -- namely that viewpoint discrimination is intrinsically part of professional licensure. It wasn't some specific example.
If you can draw a direct comparison without it being a specific example, I don't understand what you're getting upset at me for.
At the least, the point remains that an adult can have (e.g.) her tubes tied.
If there are stronger restrictions in place, than I don't see how the point stands.
There isn't evidence, and so in its absence the establishment chose to believe something that wasn't forbidden to them by the research.
How is it "not forbidden to them by the research" in any sense that doesn't also absolve the "bad humors" or "spiritual decay" theory? Given the negative effects of the hormonal and surgical interventions in question, and the dispositive evidence for positive outcomes, what can possibly justify they're doing?
There's a famous Scott piece on the different epistemic burdens people put when faced with assessing things they do and don't want to believe. In the former it's "not excluded by the evidence" and in the latter it's "not mandated by the evidence".
In this case we can write "mandated by evidence" right off the bat. As for "not excluded by evidence", most things banned by licensing organizations aren't "excluded by evidence". Just take a look at the drama Scott got into around Ivermectin, there aren't studies categorically proving it cannot work, just studies showing lack of evidence for it working. That's standard fare in science, even "bad humors" and "spiritual decay" aren't "excluded by evidence" in the sense you seem to be using the term.
Obviously we both agree those beliefs were largely wrong, so what is left to debate here?
Epistemology, I guess. What constitutes "mandated by evidence" and "not excluded by evidence". Also, whether or not the medical profession actually follows the lofty standards you claim it does.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
5d ago
It's just a question of higher familiarity then.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
Come on man. It's fine to say "I'm right about it", it's just silly to say "I'm so right about it that the other side is like phlogiston".
Get off it.
Isn't that literally what you did when you dimissed hydroacetylene point about viewpoint discrimination in therapy by pointing out that medical professionals discriminate against viewpoints like "disease is caused by bad humors" and "disease is caused by spiritual rot"?
I'm not sure "inducing infertility" is a problem -- consenting adults can get their tubes tied.
The restrictions medical professionals put on adults wanting to do this are much stricter than the ones placed on children wanting to do it as part of gender affirming care.
As for the rest, I'd assume it's balanced against the putative mental health issues that come with untreated dysphoria
Except Guyatt's own research shows that there isn't really evidence that treating gender dysphoria helps anyone.
FWIW, I don't even disagree with you here, if you want to fight someone over it online I'm sure you can find someone on reddit to take the other side.
It's just an example. My argument is that your view of the medical profession is rather rosy.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
In what way is the belief "disease is caused by bad humors" dispositively proven to be harmful in a way that gender affirming care isn't?
Guyatt doesn't.
Sure he does, unless you think he doesn't believe that inducing infertility, wrecking the endocrine system, etc., isn't hamrful.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7d ago
I imagine they differ from you about what the evidence backs.
You imagine wrong. See for example the recent drama with Gordon Guyatt, the father of Evidence Based Medicine, who's own studies show the lack of evidence. He's still pretty freaked out about these laws being passed.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7d ago
Yeah, I know. My original question was about the grounds for the negative to reaction to such laws, if we assume the statement in your comment was true.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
I can't tell if there's some massive moral hazard involved, or just plain incompetence on the part of the board.
It's just politics on a very small scale. In theory the shareholders should keep them in check, but unless someone has majority ownership, it's a lot harder for them to coordinate than it is for the board.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
Oh, so then people definitely shouldn't say that it's a decision between a child, their parent, and the doctor, when the doctor is making statements that aren't backed by evidence. Like when a doctor says something like "puberty blockers are fully reversible", or "would you rather have a happy daughter or a dead son (/the other way around)" something should happen to them, right?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
Reading Iris's about us page, my impression is this is likely a transgender person
Without even clicking the link, the name alone is enough of a tell.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
We've had a decade straight of the absolute worst of the Blue Tribe not only being loud, but actually being in charge. We didn't win by evaporative cooling, the evaporative cooling started when we started winning.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
Then why does everybody and their dog freak out about transgender therapies being banned for lack of evidence, and start appealing to patient autonomy instead?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
One tangential thing this video made me realise again is how curiously the culture of the right and the left is drifting apart even in more subtle ways now. This is the nth time I notice that a seemingly quite popular right-wing youtuber talks in a way that is just viscerally offputting for me
On one hand I kinda wanted to agree with you after seeing that Klein vs. Coates interview and some panel with Yglesias on it, back to back, on the other hand I don't know if we want to start judging political subcultures by incredibly popular influencers... or do you want to answer some questions about Hassan Piker?
As a right-wing listener of this sort of narration, how does it feel to you?
I can't stand the Quartering even on a good day, but I was somewhat surprised by Lunduke being thrown in the same basket. Sure he's an outragemonger, but most of the time I'd read him as jolly rather than angry.
Honestly I think the price of ec2 in terms of server time is somewhat reasonable. Not reasonable-reasonable, but like within 4x the cost of actual hardware and electricity, and honestly it's close-to-cost if you sign a year long contract for provisioning.
Last I looked, the moment you ask for something with a bit more RAM, the prices start getting very goofy.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9d ago
How does Amazon get away with charging like 1200x the commodity price of bandwidth of a data center provider like hurricane electric?
That's how:
I could just do it how I'd do at work and have something in like an hour
There was a point where I was questioning my own sanity about AWS / GCP / etc. prices because my calculations were showing similar price differences, but any time I take a look it does seem like they charge literal orders of magnitude more, and not just for bandwidth.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9d ago
Whenever anyone says anything to anyone, we should at least consider the possibility that what they said was meant literally. But there's nothing here to suggest a literal interpretation, this is no different than Lyndon B. Johnson's "war on poverty" speech.
And if you disagree, then put your money where your mouth is, and bet me.
it is a promise of war against domestic political opponents who are broadly popular in Chicago
No it's not, unless we're going for selective literalism. If you really believe that, I'll happily offer you a bet on whether military force will be deployed against local Chicago politicians, the same way I offered you one about whether Trump will run for a third term.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9d ago
Work cooked my brain last week, so no update.
Since your last comment was on Monday, @Southkraut, I take it the same goes for you?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9d ago
the most we have to show for it is incredibly slow robotaxis operating in geofenced areas within a few select cities that don't have weather, which taxis are under constant monitoring from central command.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
10d ago
A lot of the failure comes from the fact that European countries could not really fathom a guest worker program with NO route to permanent residency.
I'm pretty sure they existed within my lifetime.
It's not the messaging that spooks me out, it's the sheer size of the marketing and education infrastructure that was deployed in order to drive adoption, the speed with which it was ready to go, and who it was targeted at. Public and public-adjacent institutions aren't usually pushing people towards the latest fads, but this is exactly what's happening right now.
The best mundane explanation I can think of is that it's some galaxy-brained eurocrat scheme to Lead The World In Innovation or something, except that doing a free marketing campaign for American tech companies (which they usually low-key hate) is a bit of a weird way of doing that, and even if we go with that explanation that still kinda is a conspiracy.
Sort of. There was a whole conflict between the liberals that actually made the CRA happen, and Critical Race Theorists, who had a much more radical vision, and were salty about the liberal one winning out.
The latter aren't likely to say nowadays (they did in the past though) that they the CRA was bad, because that would make them even less popular than they are now, but they will put out memes that go directly against the philosophy of the Civil Rights movement (for example seeing "there is only one race, the human race", or "I don't see color" as expressions of racism).
No, not really. Like I said, Critical Race Theory thinkers studied directly under them. It would be bizarre if they never heard of their theories, and took no inrerest in them. I think the most reasonable interpretation of their silence is complete approval of the crazy woke theries you claim they would have opposed.
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