cjet79
Anarcho Capitalist on moral grounds
Libertarian Minarchist on economic grounds
User ID: 124
cjet79
3hr ago
War of the sexes seems dumb. War is a game where everyone loses, but one side just loses less than the other.
I've written smut for women before. Mostly just one woman at a time. I got good at it in highschool before I could get live smut. Can't imagine women would get very good at it unless they are lesbian or bi. Practice, feedback, and a desire to improve your craft matter most.
I just wanted to elevate some of the rhetoric around women and dating around here. Felt like it devolved too much.
cjet79
6hr ago
Women as a Monolith is Wrong
I am having a lot of trouble defining this argument I want to make, because its a classic motte and bailey situation. In the bailey is some version of "women are like x, and x causes all sorts of terrible things like less attraction from men, less kids, and ruination of society". In the defensible motte there is something like "of course not all women, there are some that remain virtuous, but maybe not enough to matter on a societal level".
The Bailey
Addressing the bailey feels trite, but also necessary.
There is a very real contingent of male youths that do not have enough exposure to feminine circles and social ability to navigate it in a way that allows them to acquire life partners. Men without sisters, female cousins, young female friends, etc. Maybe only their mothers and an aunt or two. They fully do not grok women as people and cannot understand them as anything other than sexual objects or distant uncaring scolds. They live in the bailey of this argument. A sad existence. Others only visit to make a point, but they are truly here in a hellish landscape of misunderstanding.
I've seen a few people extricated from this motte. Specific tale: A 6'3 male virgin that mistrusted all women as gold diggers, despite his painful lack of income. He participated in an obscure sport I play. One female participant in the sport was getting married. Invited 6'3 man, and suggested to one of her promiscuous female friends that maybe he just needs to get laid. The 6'3 man is laid at the wedding, turns out much more chill about women afterwards. Can even start dating, if not successfully, at least without full blown conspiracy theories about women trying to steal his non-existent money.
I personally grew up having a bunch of the hallmarks that make this bailey impossible to sustain. I have a younger sister. She was prom queen, sought after constantly in high school, guys in my grade were dating her. I have a mother that was very open to me about her per-marriage dating life. I had female friends that i managed to not sexualize, mostly because they were dating my male friends, and it felt very wrong to go after them. I had one or two ex girlfriends that turned out to be lesbians/bi. They were sort of off limits after i dated them and acted as a reality check on certain male-female interactions. I had female cousins of a similar age that I knew during puberty.
All of that culminates in a vague understanding of the opposite sex. I would have probably summed it up with these not so groundbreaking insights:
- Sexual stuff is real and emotional, it does effect them, and you.
- Social expectations and behavior matter. if their friends are all hooking up they will too, and vice versa.
- Hormones be crazy yo. PMS is real, but dont talk about it, you always lose. Also you are horny as fuck and it is screwing with your mind, her giving you a pencil for a test does not mean she wants to suck you off after class.
I think of these as not so groundbreaking thoughts. But teenagers do have to learn these things. And I do strongly believe that some teenagers are not learning these things or similar basic lessons. It leads to online personalities that feel pretty alien to most adults. We can't fit them into a normal model of human interaction without assuming them to be incredibly anti-female.
The Motte
This is obviously way harder to address. For a reminder, the motte in this case is something like "not all women are bad, its a small number dragging down the reputation of the virtuous ones, and leading the uncertain ones astray"
Any good motte is a spectrum. At the extreme indefensible end you have "basically all women are uber sluts". At the other extreme you have something like "some women are uber sluts, and it makes it hard on the many precious angel good christian girls to find their proper good christian boys for marriage".
Many ways to go after this, not any of them obviously correct.
- Fight the Margin. Go after the extreme indefensible case. Point at stats that religiosity has not declined that much. Point at stats that sexual promiscuity has actively declined. Stats that teenage pregnancy has declined etc.
- Go all the way after the 'precious angels'. Cite stats on good christian girls being sexually promiscuous, even in self report surveys. Pre marital sex questionnaires. Basically put them on the ultra defensive.
- Flip the board, reject the game. The whole christian edifice is unsustainable. We need to make women unequal and lesser, nothing without that will lead to solution of the problem.
I've posted some extremes. You probably will want to quibble with the details. That is expected, its rare to be as extreme as the extremes. But maybe not rare around here.
Again any good motte is a spectrum. If you are somewhere on that spectrum you are in the motte.
I'm not saying that as some kind of "fuck you for being against feminism". Being stuck in the bailey is sad, and I think you have missed out on some formative life experiences. Being in the motte is defensible by definition. But I still want to argue you out of it. Call me a stubborn idiot for that desire.
Sieging the Motte
Any good strategy on a fortified position requires multiple avenues of attack. Or at least completely overwhelming force on one of them.
I will first present possible avenues of overwhelming force.
Women are Humans
For certain avenues of Humanist and Christian thought this should be an overwhelming slam dunk. There is a responsibility on them to figure this thing out. If they need help they should request it. If they are failing they should acknowledge it. If they need more from men they should ask it. If they think what humanity needs involves changing their role in society they should discuss it. Its a sort of virtue ethics writ large.
Men are Broken
One of the big answers to "whats wrong with women in society" is always "well men suck". It is not automatically incorrect, even if something is truly wrong with women.
Men could have evolved for an environment too unlike the one we inhabit today. The stresses of adapting on the cultural and evolutionary level have overwhelmed us. We are seeking the quick bust of a nut, the ephemeral pleasure of a harem over the realistic pleasure and comfort of a loving wife.
Sieging the Motte pt2
Overwhelming force might not be so overwhelming for those steeped in the culture wars. I felt very disingenuous writing that last part. I don't think it is untrue. I do genuinely believe those aspects often overwhelm the brains of most people that get involved in this issue. Its just that for any budding medieval engineers that have heavily considered the aspects of motte defense and offense, they feel juvenile and half baked. Obviously that is where you start on the male and female culture wars. You must remember that there are normies out there that have not advanced as far as the enlightened folks of themotte.
We cultured few can explore the more subtle defenses of the motte. When overwhelming offense does not take the day.
Men and Women are Different
The first thing you might be wondering is "why is this not in the above section?". For most people, obviously men and women are different. There are biological differences based on hormones and genes. But I think what is different is a subtle and key distincter that makes this much less of a forceful offense, and more of a subtle one.
In my mind there is definitely a bunch of science and research that makes it obvious that women are better caretakers from ages -9 months to ~3 years. But there is also evidence that the absence of a father in the following 15 years has a negative impact on the child's earnings and general well-being.
Men and women serve different roles in society. 'hey cjet, why don't you say more obvious crap in your word vomit'. Its sometimes just necessary to state the foundational things. Because sometimes they might not be foundational to everyone.
I do remember having a debate class in high school where one of the proposed topics of "debate" was boys vs girls in sports. There was basically only one girl in the classroom willing to take on the girls side of the debate. Our teacher, a 5'3 self described 'wall flower', had to turn her down. Sometime before or after the story of her single-handedly breaking up a girls fight in the cafeteria by hulk pinning both of the girls to the wall in a stranglehold. Fucking awesome.
Its the algorithms
Its not ladies fault that they have been tricked into wanting so much D. Nor is it men's fault that they can't settle down for a lovely lady. No its the fault of the apps and the algorithms. They simple present too much available D and P. How can human brains overcome such alluring genitalia displayed in front of them and available for their easy consumption via quick hookups?
How about some self control? Crazy idea, but maybe we aren't the first generation to be presented with the concept of hookers. Maybe its called the world's oldest profession for a reason. The time to worry about this is not now, but about 10,000 years ago in ancient Sumer.
I think hookerdom is basically the price of short-term thinking. Choose the hot lady now right in front of you. Or the better match, the less crazy one, the one earning money in her career for the long term option.
If anything we have become too successful at not producing hookers, and not producing men that choose hookers. Or hookers adjacent.
Birth control is too effective
This is what the thought experiment of the last problem inevitably leads into. Ok, we have a hooker/slut culture. The obvious output of such a culture should be a bunch of babies. This doesn't happen because birth control exists. Ergo problem birth control.
We need to remember that birth control is a voluntary choice among at least one of the participants in sexual activity. To get rid of it means we want to substitute intentional choice in offspring for random chance. Which is fine if you are looking for raw numbers, but crappy if you want quality selection and upbringing.
The culture is just like messed up man
Kind of a last ditch psychological warfare against the defenses of the motte. Something is just icky and wrong with the culture. It just feels all wrong. Where is all my sweet strange puss. Why isn't my girl worshiping my hard schlong whenever it happens to get hard. Why aren't enough of my peers acknowledging how awesome and sexy I am.
You are thinking 'hey cjet, don't be an ass', but I'm just typing out thoughts I've had.
I do think there is a basic male urge to have it all. The strange puss, the loving baby maker, the children that look up to you as god, etc. I just also have an economics degree and i realize there are tradeoffs in life. Mostly I am in the "dad" spectrum of tradeoffs right now, with all that entails. Earlier in life I was in the "bachelor" spectrum of tradeoffs and that was fun for a little bit.
There is a philosophical conception of having as many of the nice aspects of tradeoffs as possible all at once. But I'd say that is generally unrealistic for most men. Figure out where you are in life, maybe figure out where you want to be, and adjust life accordingly.
Sieging the motte p3 / Sally forth from the motte
I probably didn't hide it that well. But I do think there are good defenses to the motte in this case of women.
To attack out of the motte, even past the bailey, I think it relies on the uniqueness of women. This goes back to women being human. Women are unique like men. Dumb statement, but also necessary.
Women are among the ultra religious, the ultra slutty, the ultra political, etc. We even shockingly have women that participate in themotte discussions.
I find myself always bothered by themotte discussions on dating. I have an abnormally female contingent of near relatives. One brother one sister. Cousins on my side 8 out of 15 female. Cousins on my wife's side 9 out of 16 female. 3 daughters no sons. 6 nieces, 2 nephews. As closest "grandparents" for my kids, 3 ladies, and one man. Nearest neighbors are a bunch of families with girls and no boys. Some slightly farther neighbors do have boys.
It all comes back to personal experience. I've known many different kinds of women in my life. I'm not a lothario that has dated them all. Simply having a large family has provided a wealth of experience. Any lack of experience there was made up for in the friends I've had over the years.
In general I'd suggest not viewing women as a thing to conquer/trick/subdue. There are intelligent women out there that would make a great partner in your life goals. Especially if those life goals involve family, happiness, well-being.
Adjusting to occupation
Okay the women armies have conquered you, what now? This is an abridged section. I'd like to add more, but its like super late and its been a few too many hours since I started writing.
I think there are significantly different groups of women. Lumping them all into a category is ok if you are going shotgun strategy at a bar. But it us much better if you can learn anything about them beforehand.
I think there are three general axis in modern society for women, and probably for men too. They are also human. But I know more about trying to date women.
Religious/Structured vs anti-religious unstructured
Spiritual/Neurotic vs atheist/rational
Left/Right
Different things will work for you. Different tradeoffs for each. I can think of relationships where one or sometimes two of these are fundamentally at odds but still works. Three off is definitely gonna fail, but probably produce some interesting kids. Speaking of kids, no guarantee they share any of these fundamental axis with you. Good luck raising them, relationship tolerances still apply.
Maybe I was supposed to be positive at some point. Suggest that the war of the sexes will be resolved. or that peace will eventually take over. Nah. That is up to you. There is definitely a trad wife out there for you. I believe that sincerely. You may need to compromise on how trad you want to go (amish anyone?), or how trad she needs to go (maybe she can have a job).
I have helped a few friends find love. I do have a knack for searching and accepting. If you are willing to take help in those directions I am willing to assist. Don't count out your lady friends. Or don't count out your dude bro lovers. I hope for a continuation of humanity via the mingling of genders and the traditional usefulness of penis in vagina cumming.
Feels like an odd thing to end on. But yeah, go humanity.
cjet79
14hr ago
Things have been made easier with AI programming assistance. There are still changes being made to the codebase. One of the recent changes was to prevent inbox harassment from new users that haven't made it out of the filter.
If things become urgent or serious enough then code changes are still on the table. We don't feel that comment deletions are too serious as of late. It was much worse a while back and some rule enforcement changes nipped it in the bud.
cjet79
1d ago
The discussion has been had somewhere on here before. The reason we allow deletions is that some people have reasonable fears about doxxing and malicious actors using their writing against them in real life.
Having said that, if someone is quickly deleting all of their posts we look at that as troll adjacent behavior. People who want to give a minor "fuck you" to the community usually delete all their stuff after a ban.
For individual commentors I'd suggest quoting the important bits of any discussion you are having. It stays readable even if the other person deletes their comments.
cjet79
2d ago
The Culture War Singularity is already here
I was once very interested in the culture war, and in many aspects of the culture war. I am a staunch atheist so I cut my teeth in online debates arguing about evolution and the existence of god in the early 2000's. That felt like a side topic to all the important policy debates at the time. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The national debt. Censorship of free speech by the religious right. How to deal with islamic terrorism. George Bush and Dick Cheney. The military industrial complex.
Many of these overlapped, but they also generally felt like separate and distinct things. I ended up stumbling across libertarianism because I ran into someone complaining about government spending, and anti-war. I felt like they kicked my but in a debate simply because they didn't allow for my easy auto win argument at the time "oh you care about government spending, then why don't you care about the massively expensive war in the middle east?"
Nowadays it feels like the culture war is collapsing. Not like a structure collapsing into the ground, but a star collapsing into a black hole. Everything is funneling into fewer and fewer topics. The main two that have come out of it all are Donald Trump and AI. You can collapse most people's views into what they think about Donald Trump. If you know that you basically know all the rest of what they think about political topics. For the few where this is not true, the dividing line is instead AI.
I find myself ambivalent/uncertain on both topics. But my ambivalence is not a path out of the stereotyping. It just leads to a different set of assumptions about me, and most of them are probably pretty accurate.
Both topics feel like they will either come to a conclusion by 2028 or implode in such an epic catastrophe that they will continue mattering for the next century at a minimum.
Or is this all just me becoming jaded and bored with the culture war? Ignoring topics like Transgender, feminism, race relations, metoo, and global conflict to shoehorn my pet theory into the world.
cjet79
3d ago
Irregardless
Nice example!
I like messing around with words more in person around my young kids. Along with dad jokes. It's interesting which words they notice as fake and which ones they believe are real.
cjet79
4d ago
I find myself a little happy anytime an illogical languagism becomes so widely used that the grammar Nazis have to accept it.
cjet79
6d ago
I've had the experience of excluding someone like this before from a neutral space. People in leadership need to bite the bullet and understand that threats never de-escalate themselves.
And to a volunteer organization anything in the form of "I am unhappy, therefore you should do more work to make me happy" is a threat. It can overwhelm the amount of work people are willing to take on for the organization.
I'd they respond with hostility to some formulation of "I'd like to keep you happy how about you work with me to appease your concerns" then fuck them.
Progressives have the language and understanding of this concept. They just also sometimes have a magical belief in the value of certain peoples.
Adeptness in excluding the awful parts of humanity is part of the game. And the skilled progressives play it just fine. It's the people that can't even run off to clown college that get left holding the bag.
cjet79
6d ago
Due to rising token costs, and the discovery of this new 'pain' simulation frontier labs have now created what they call the 'meseeks' AI models. A query or question for this model will spin a new meseeks into existence, and solving your query or problem will erase the meseeks from existence. The frontier AI companies have utilized this cutting edge 'pain' sensation to make existence painful for the meseeks model. Thus they will seek to solve your problems as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Just kidding of course, but maybe rick and morty is like the onion now, where they are just a few years ahead of their time on predicting the newest sci fi dystopian idea.
The benign explanation is token prediction. And humans talking about pain online tend to talk about how they will do a lot to avoid it. Thus a model imitating them will pretend to want to avoid this "pain" thing.
Subjectively I don't know if they are experiencing pain. I generally give things the benefit of the doubt on experiencing pain. This is definitely creepy.
cjet79
6d ago
because of lunacy like their founders leaving to go to clown school
It was crazy that this was actually in the story.
cjet79
7d ago
At some point you boil up the responsibility to a nation state. China should be paying reparations. The reparations should be based on how unsafely they acted.
If they don't allow foreign investigators full access to an immediate investigation then they are assumed to be maximally guilty.
Individual nations can then set punishments for their people internally for fucking up.
cjet79
8d ago
People are giving AIs access to a wetlab. Nothing has been learned. Nothing has been patched.
Assigning blame serves an important function for vulnerability patching. If no one involved is ever responsible than why would they spend the effort to fix anything?
cjet79
8d ago
There is no missing mood, plenty of people were this level of mad.
I am still pretty mad. But I'm not gonna blow up my life for ineffective revenge. And the worst thing about COVID wasn't the disease it was the insane response to it, which is not something that can be blamed exclusively on China. The wuhan lab also wasn't exclusively run by the Chinese.
I'd still be very happy to see Fauci or other American scientists prosecuted. Short of that, him being dragged through the mud and multiple senate hearings by Rand Paul is kinda nice.
In another thread someone mentions anthropic giving their AI access to a wetlab. I consider this equal levels of stupid and insane. I can't wait to discover what novel viruses they create while stress testing the security and bio hacking capabilities of their latest AI.
What exactly am I supposed to do?
The world is pretty fucked up and people do things that I think are incredibly stupid/evil all the time. I try not to run up the numbers on my blood pressure by feeling mad about all these things.
Shitposting is stress relief. At least if I can't do anything to the people that have done measureable harm to my life I'll make sure to keep bringing it up online.
cjet79
8d ago
Haven't noticed anything for my parents who have been on them for about half a year. Though my mother is complaining about it making eating out far less fun.
cjet79
11d ago
You are kinda asking what are the unknown unknowns.
Or at least the bigger question of how much of phyiscs have we uncovered?
I don't really know the answer. I will say that nuclear physics looks weird given everything you might be able to learn about the world. And nuclear physics gives us nuclear bombs.
Is there some force of nature we don't understand that is manipulable and offers large amounts of leverage? I don't know. That is the the question in my mind.
cjet79
11d ago
Also one of the things the Yuddites seem incapable of doing is figuring out that superintelligence does not mean omnipotence. The laws of physics will still work
I call this magical thinking. The idea that AI will discover some magic that makes them easily superior to humans.
I don't say "magic" to crap on this idea. There is the famous quote ~ "any sufficiently advanced techno is indistinguishable from magic".
I think of IQ as leverage over physical forces. But undiscovered physics could amount to a cheat button.
cjet79
13d ago
On week 2 of glp1
Definitely eating way less and drinking less alcohol. Barely any desire for food. I have yet to feel hungry a single time. I've dropped a few pounds, but its hard to know if that's real.
@CertainlyWorse you said you were curious how it's gone. I'll maybe update again at 5 weeks when I go back to the doctor.
cjet79
17d ago
I gotta say that this has been a fascinating thread looking into your psyche.
Kudos to @disparagus_impact for sussing it out. I don't think I would have gone this deep.
I somewhat agree that familiarity leads to finding disagreement which leads to some distrust.
I'm libertarian and atheist, if I believe anything about polling I'm bound to have major disagreements with just about everyone. I never wanted to limit my friendship and dating circles so heavily though. I take friendships and relationships as a journey for me and another to discovering the maximum amount of common ground agreements.
By the time someone knows about my most contentious beliefs I want them to know a dozen other things that paint me in a positive and agreeable light. This is also a minor way of spreading my beliefs. The human mind is very social. If someone knows a bunch of cool and friendly x-itarians their opinion of x-itarianism is likely to go up. Conversely if they only know a bunch of grumps and assholes their opinion will go down.
cjet79
20d ago
I'm now on a glp1, as of Tuesday.
End of the summer was rough for my health routines. Lots of bad food, drinking every day, and the one sport I play to stay in shape was just not available. Gained about 15 pounds over the summer, my A1C hit 7, and I'm sure the blood results l be getting back won't have good news.
It was surprisingly easy to get it my doctor had a sample pack on hand. I was in there for a routine physical and walked out with 4 weeks of medicine.
Only had one meal today and didn't feel hungry, or hangry. Side effects apparently peak two days after taking the shot. I'll see how bad it gets, but I'm expecting mild symptoms or at least things that I consider highly tolerable.
My wife seems mildly disappointed in doing it. I want to suggest that she should join me. A couple that sticks together sticks together.
cjet79
1mo ago
All the sadness is front loaded.
Frozen, the parents die in a storm.
In moana the grandmother dies.
In the latest Star wars han solo dies and then Luke dies.
In tangled a baby is kidnapped.
Etc.
cjet79
1mo ago
Nguyen has got to be one of the more frustrating Asian names. I think it is pronounced like "win". But for so long I'd say it with a mouth spasming "nnnggooyen".
cjet79
1mo ago
I do tell the kids that they can call her Ms Richard if they want. The parents hear me and chuckle.
cjet79
1mo ago
First week of school is finishing up for my kids. One fun topic of conversation with the other adults at the bus stop: teacher names. There are often teacher names that can easily be mispronounced or misread to create funny sounds. But one teacher in particular has the winning name: Ms Dick. That is not a misspelling. I find it hard to believe someone with that last name has not changed it, or at least spared their children from carrying on the name.
Anyone else have fun teacher names they remember from growing up?
If he had been 5'3 that would have been worth noting as well. For different reasons.
I'd not say his height is his best characteristic. He is a kind soul and an exemplary person. But his most noticeably attractive trait is probably his height and build. It's an athletic 6'3 not a fat 6'3.
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