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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   2084 thread views

Transnational Thursday for February 22, 2024

Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.

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Is there a wing of the Democratic party that wants to dramaticly ramp up shipbuilding capacity? If so I haven't seen it.

I vaguely remember Romney talking about building more ships in the 2012 debates, and getting laughed off the stage.

I think politicians struggle to justify our current level of military spending ($800 billion (mr evil stance) per year), let alone a big increase. That's where I mean that the political capital, and to some extent just money, is limited.

But yes, in general I agree with you. It's crazy that the US has more money than ever, yet struggles to maintain the fleet it had in the 80s. It doesn't need to invent new technology, it just has to actually build shit.

Is there a wing of the Democratic party that wants to dramatically ramp up shipbuilding capacity?

No? Every dollar spent on the military-industrial complex is a dollar not spent on the education-managerial complex.

And it is the education-managerial complex that's actually on the back foot here because the vast majority of its power rests upon the existence of cheap Chinese manufacturing (both chips and otherwise). Their time is over as soon as the Chinese missiles leave their launchers no matter which way you slice it.

Why invest in a pre-emptive solution that would require you give more power back to the middle class (which is one of the things a large manufacturing base is famous for doing) when you could just do nothing and enrich yourself in the meantime? If China never tries to take back Taiwan, you'll still keep your power and didn't have to spend a dime to do it; if China tries to take back Taiwan and explodes the EMC's money-making machinery, now you've put your political enemy in a more difficult position, which is good because should they win and fix everything they'll be less able to resist you 20 years down the line. Same dynamics as climate change but with the political valence reversed.

Progressives' job is ultimately to convince China to leave their money printer alone specifically because their rule weakens the US. If China disregards that advice and the US ends up turfing its hyper-conservative (as in "no new development ever") ruling class as a result of the financial problems that destruction would create they're going to be a lot harder to fight.

It’s not just warships.

The Jones Act hurt all US shipbuilding.

I’m not saying Dems on average are excited about military spending. But it’s not that Ukraine support has anything to do with that.

The Jones Act really does seem like a massive own-goal, with the potential to ruin the US.

offshore manufacturing and transition to a service economy? OK, controversial decision, but I can see the logic of it. We'll just pay other countries to build stuff for us.

Oh, but we're now required by law to build ships in the US? Despite there being no one left in the US who can actually do that kind of shipbuilding? That's going to be a big problem. It's one giant bottleneck in the entire US economy, and especially its navy.

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