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Once again, how do you explain height differences?
How much difference would you accept as reasonable based on genetics? Clearly, one standard deviation is too much. A half maybe?
You’re right about the overall limits of variance we are going to see among human populations.
However.
In the grand scheme of things, 85, 100, and 115 IQs are not a huge amount of variation for our species anymore than 5’5”, 5’10”, and 6’3” heights are.
At some point we will have exhausted plausible environmental explanations for the achievement gap.
In fact, we already have, as evidenced by arguments serving as excuses that it would take centuries to get past the effects of misfortune (an order of magnitude more than what the Supreme Court thought), and that ever-present “systemic racism” is behind any disparity, with no need to show actual evidence of racism.
The tide of the evidence is being pulled in one direction along multiple fronts, and so people want to pretend we have the same understanding of genetics as 50+ years ago when it was less clear and explicit oppression was far worse and more recent.
To my friends, everything; to my enemies, epistemic humility.
The average height of a Chinese man is 170cm and the average height of a European man is 180cm. The difference between the two is only a little above 5% on average with recent males being 175cm which indicates that much of this disparity is not genetic, but environmental. This represents populations that are separated by the largest continent in the world.
See: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1235772.shtml
Honestly, probably less than half a standard deviation but probably not nothing. It's not really that important though, because I believe that there are significant gains that can be had if the environmental influences are taken into consideration and ameliorated.
You've already been linked this list, but perhaps you missed some of the implications. Allow me to expand upon this by pointing out some fun facts.
Jamaica ranks three places higher than the United States.
Jamaica is also 5cm and like 75 spots on the list ahead of Japan.
Japan is essentially tied with Haiti.
Literally every single Asian country comes in behind Senegal.
All of which raises a huge problem for your position: Assigning more weight to environmental factors makes the genetic gap larger, not smaller. If the likes of Jamaica and Senegal had access to First World medical care and nutrition the same way Japan and South Korea do, how much taller would the former be then? And more to the point, what would nurture advocates blame the enormous difference on then?
The notion that the human genome doesn't have enough variation for large differences in complex polygenic traits between isolated population groups just doesn't hold water. You can ignore this post if you want, but expect to see it again next time you want to bemoan how HBDers won't dig down into the evidence with you.
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Obviously much of the historic difference in height is environmental. Look how fast it changed once nutrition improved all over the world, and the longstanding gap that emerged between North and South Koreans.
But certain parts of Europe average close to 6 ft. It’s not like the Dutch have had some special nutrition better than say us in America.
My favorite part is that now you have to explain how we’re going to catch up to the Ashkenazim and their standard deviation advantage over whites.
Half standard deviation is still a substantial gap, by the way. The shift in direction really affects the tails and it would be noticeable. Asians have to be discriminated against at Harvard for a reason.
Japan is tied with Haiti for height. Environmental effects aren't even pushing in the direction he needs them to.
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Now consider the difference between Pygmy populations in Africa and Nordics. There's nothing you can feed the former, barring Human Growth Hormone, that will make them reach similar average heights.
And if your (Questionmark's) point isn't about the African pygmies, because they are among the most genetically diverse groups, consider those who are outside of Africa, who are more closely related—there are several groups with average male height under 5 feet.
(to both of you) I'll note that the question as to how much variation is possible, referring to standard deviation, is rather strange, as the standard deviation depends on the variance. I suppose it's possible if environmental factors play a large enough role?
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