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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   21703 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 14, 2024

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I don't know about KMC, but the things I saw were rules being changed in ways which favor Democrats, blatantly illegally, and the courts just kinda shrugging. But what convinced me that there was more than the usual fraud (over and above election rules changes) going on was the whole Georgia water main thing. The claim by the crazy fraud-claiming Republicans was it happened a certain way. The claimants were called paranoid conspiracy theorists. It turns out it went exactly that way. The people who called them conspiracy theorists tried to split hairs and also claim it didn't matter anyway, and of course that narrative carried the day.

But what convinced me that there was more than the usual fraud (over and above election rules changes) going on was the whole Georgia water main thing.

Rudy Giuliani had the perfect opportunity to present evidence of his claims when he was sued by the Georgia election workers for defamation, but he instead sandbagged and stumbled towards a default judgment. I think he acted that way because he knew he had no defense against defaming them. Do you think my conclusion is unreasonable?

Rudy Giuliani had the perfect opportunity to present evidence of his claims when he was sued by the Georgia election workers for defamation, but he instead sandbagged and stumbled towards a default judgment.

Which is to say he was denied the chance to present evidence of his claims in court through procedural legerdemain.

I think he acted that way because he knew he had no defense against defaming them. Do you think my conclusion is unreasonable?

Yes. I think the court acted that way to prevent him from defending himself. Because maintaining the appearance of integrity of elections is more important than maintaining their actual integrity, apparently.

That's interesting, how do you know that Giuliani actually had evidence to present instead of just bluffing? Assuming he had evidence, why didn't Giuliani just release the evidence elsewhere? I think the reason he didn't release evidence is because he was lying about having had evidence. Which part of my conclusion do you think is unreasonable?

That's interesting, how do you know that Giuliani actually had evidence to present instead of just bluffing?

I don't know what Giuliani had. I do know the court engaged in dirty tricks to prevent him from being able to use it to defend himself. I also know that regardless of what Giuliani had, the sequence of events described by the crazy conspiracy theorists in Georgia did in fact actually happen (and is no longer disputed).

So to loop it back, I said my theory for why Giuliani sandbagged his trial is because he didn't have the evidence he claimed he had. You claimed this was an unreasonable position to hold, but now you're saying that you don't know what evidence Giuliani had? If he hasn't released his evidence outside of court, do you still think it's unreasonable to think the man has been lying about that? At what point would you be willing to accept that explanation?

You keep trying to change the subject back to Giuliani. Nothing I have said about the election is dependent on Giuliani doing anything or not doing anything, having evidence or not having evidence. You're just pounding on the table.

You are ALSO trying to beg the question with "Giuliani sandbagged his trial"; I claim he did not and was railroaded. But this is a separate issue.

I only brought up Giuliani because he was the one who broke the story, and who made the most confident pronouncements about the election workers involved, and who claimed to have a bunch of evidence to prove his allegations. I posit if the claims about "pulling out suitcases of Biden ballots and scanning them multiple times" were true, he was the best positioned to prove them.

Giuliani did not break the story. The story was reported on social media in real time.

I do not know if they pulled out suitcases of Biden ballots and scanned them multiple times. I do know they claimed there was a water main leak (which there was not), the poll observers left, they came back (without the observers), pulled out suitcases of ballots, and counted them.

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That's equivalent to saying "the cops planted evidence on him, but how do you know he wasn't guilty anyway?" If the procedure is so messed up that someone can't prove his innocence, you should default to assuming that he's innocent, not to assuming that he's guilty.

That metaphor doesn't make sense because I don't know what innocent/guilty is supposed to map to for Giuliani. I'm saying that Giuliani is lying when he claims to have evidence, and whether or not his court procedure was messed up (citation needed) doesn't affect his ability to release his purported evidence outside of court. There's no reason for me to default to assuming he's telling the truth.

What good would it do him to release his evidence out of court? He has no motivation to help people win themotte arguments.

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