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We spent 20 years fighting Islamic terrorism and spent trillions of dollars fighting much of the Middle Eastern public and you think their public opinion doesn't matter?
The Abraham Accords caught... Bahrain and the UAE. This great success was followed up with Sudan, of all countries. Not Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia: any of the relevant powers. UAE is vaguely relevant I suppose.
So that leaves just the UAE. Not a great success.
Did you miss the Yemen/Red Sea war we're now fighting? Iran and the US are fighting a proxy war in Iraq as we speak, shelling eachother.
We spent that because of Western decisions to. Not Israeli or Israeli concerns. Islamism and Islamic terrorism has declined. Isis was its heydey. Secularism is spreading in the Middle East.
First off, it got UAE, Morocco, Bahrain, and Sudan. Two...Egypt has had relations with Israel for over 40 years, ever since Israel gave back the Sinai. Do you even know anything about the Middle East, if you dont know this most basic geopolitical fact? It makes anything you say come into question.
Syria is a failed state that can barely keep itself together. Its not a relevant power. Iraq is a barely holding itself together, let alone relevant. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the only ones you have a point on, and even then not much. Why? Because Saudi Arabia is offering to normalize with Israel for "steps" towards a Palestinian state. Not making one come into fruition. Just recognition that eventually one will be created. Thats very little commitment.
Bahrain still has political relations and recognizes Israel. They still are apart of the Abraham Accords. Still a major success. Still 4 Arab states that normalized with Israel.
The Iranians and US are fighting a proxy war in Iraq because the US wants to contain Iran for its own geopolitical considerations. Its as much as protecting Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, which are US aligned, from Iran. And maintaining US power in the region. Not for Israel.
Flatly wrong. The invasion of Iraq was heavily motivated by Israeli influence. Everything from Israel's false WMD intelligence to the open admissions from people in the know like Philip Zelikow, General Wesley Clark, Ruth Wedgewood, Senator Ernest Hollings and others. And people like Sharon and Netanyahu were publicly doing their usual 'they're going to get WMD's routine', urging war. Notably the Israelis panicked when Iraq let in UN weapons inspectors, switching to a position that the inspectors were going to be deceived and so the war must go on regardless, as it did: Foreign Minister Peres told reporters, "The campaign against Saddam Hussein is a must. Inspections and inspectors are good for decent people, but dishonest people can overcome easily inspections and inspectors."
As it happens, he wasn't wrong. Dishonest people can overcome inspections, albeit in a different way than he'd like us to think.
That had nothing to do with the Abraham Accords, it had to do with a river of US aid pouring into Egypt (and some other countries like Jordan) so they'd get along with Israel. You presented the Abraham Accords as this great breakthrough, you said it broke the assumption that Arab states wouldn't have relations with Israel. If the Abraham Accords had gotten Egypt to get along with Israel, then that would've made it a success but it didn't, so it wasn't. My point stands fine, your point that the Abraham Accords were this major breakthrough remains weak.
The Iranians are fighting their proxy wars because they know they're on the chopping block, they saw exactly what happened to Iraq and Trump showed that American promises aren't worth the paper they're written on. They want all pro-US forces as far away from them as possible.
It is hard to keep yourself together when the US is occupying your territory. The problem here is the US stirring up the Middle East, causing chaos, conveniently wrecking anyone that might threaten Israel. It's expensive, it's dangerous, it causes all kinds of long-term problems for the West. It needs to stop.
What kind of bullshit is this? The Egyptians already had made peace with Israel. They mainly made peace in return for the Sinai, not American aid. Thats just a benefit.
Your obfuscating things to match your agenda. The Abraham Accords had no need for Egypt, because Egypt had already made peace. They got four Arab states to go make peace with Israel. Two of them Gulf States.
The Iranians are fighting a proxy war because they want to spread their own brand of political Islamism and revolutionary islamic govt. Pro-US forces are there to stop the spread. This helps maintain stability and aid the Saudis and by extension, other Gulf states like Bahrain, UAE and Oman.
...the US isnt occupying any of Syria. What are you even on about? You mean because the US supports the Syrian Democratic forces with a very minimal amount of troops? The Syrian Democratic Forces are local forces, mainly local Kurds and Arabs, who arent even trying to rebel against Assad anymore. They mostly want autonomy and detente with the Syrian state. The reason US forces were even there was to help the Kurds fight ISiS. It had nothing to do with Israel, and it certainly isnt an American occupation. Most of the forces are Syrian, local Kurds and Arabs who run the show. Saying the US occupies Northeastern Syria is ridiculous.
The fact that you obfuscated with Egypt leaves all of this incredibly suspect. Sharon was neutral on Iraq, and he was the Prime Minister at the time. Do you really expect the israelis to come out in full force opposition to their greatest ally? They would primarily share their thoughts in private. And Sharon was neutral.
Iraq was motivated because George W Bush had an axe to grind. His father didnt take down Saddam, and that fact irked Bush. So Bush, along with Cheney, was happy to finally take Saddam down. The Iraq war was a mistake motivated by personal interests, not any Israeli concerns.
Why can't you understand a conditional clause? If it were the Abraham Accords that got Egypt to get along with Israel, then that would've made them an achievement. The Abraham Accords got Bahrain and the UAE, of which only the UAE matters. Morocco too, which has basically nothing to do with the Middle East other than being Arab and Islamic.
They have troops there. ISIS is gone yet US troops remain. Clearly it's not about fighting ISIS. If you have troops on the soil of another country without their permission, it's an occupation.
No he wasn't. This is a blatant lie.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1404673/Sharon-urges-America-to-bring-down-Saddam.html
He also wanted an invasion of Iran after Iraq was dealt with: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/05/israel.iraq
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War? I guess there aren't exactly any fixed and universal criteria to consult, but is it really a war, outright? That seems to me to imply higher stakes. I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you, but I'd expect to have heard more about it if it were more than some foreign-shores-coast-guarding with occasional naval gunfire exercises. In other words: Please inform me.
I don't know how one defines high stakes but its a consequential struggle. European Tesla factories are suspending production due to supply chain problems.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-berlin-suspend-most-production-two-weeks-over-red-sea-supply-gap-2024-01-11/
There are some dead Navy SEALs, presumably some dead Houthis, the US Navy's control of a global trade chokepoint is being contested. The Israelis claim they shot down a Houthi missile in space, making it the first instance of space warfare. IMO this is qualitatively on another level to Ethiopian pirates.
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