This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The Caribbean did in fact have a not insubstantial population of Scots-Irish laborers, indentured servants and overseers on the mostly English owned plantations. As well as ne'er do wells from Southern Ireland who were exported there by the English. To the extent that St Patricks Day is mixed in with some slavery abolition holidays there.
Having said that, the claim that black American culture is heavily influenced by Ulster Scots or Scots-Irish doesn't mean Caribbean culture having similar outcomes in the absence of such influence, invalidates the first. I am sure the French have their own equivalent of borderer culture, and it seems likely that those employed as direct slave overseers were likely not the their equivalent of WASPs. Indeed the divide seems very similar with the Anglo Cavaliers and Scots-Irish borderers having the same dynamic as the grands blancs and petits blancs on Haiti. Aristocrats and muscle, to reduce its complexities.
As a note, it may well be true that the original cultures would also have been heavily honor based, and this indeed seems likely. But in America at least, those were mostly washed away and replaced.
Old country Cajuns will sometimes quietly claim partial descent from Haitian whites(usually through Jean Lafitte's crew), which is a datapoint in "French overseers in Haiti were relatively honor oriented and clannish".
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link