site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 18, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

DeSantis is the obvious right choice.

If I had pearls, I'd be clutching them right now 😁

Vote for DeathSantis? The monster responsible for turning Florida into such a fascist state, representative organisations issued travel advisory warnings to LGBT+ and BIPOC people about visiting there?

Why, even I - white-skinned as I am - might be in peril because I speak with an accent!

Travel to all areas of Florida should be done with extreme caution as it can be particularly unsafe for people of color, LGBTQIA+ communities and individuals who speak with an accent, and international travelers. Due to unconstitutional legislation signed by Governor Ron DeSantis and supported by Legislative Leadership, every county in Florida poses a heightened risk of harassment, possible detainment, and potential family separation based on racial profiling.

In Florida, routine daily activities for those who cannot immediately prove United States Citizenship and lawful residency at all times may result in devastating consequences. These consequences include arrest for operating a vehicle, no matter the state you are from, reduced access to healthcare services, and compromised safety. Exercise extra caution if you are over 6 weeks pregnant due to restrictions on reproductive health services*.

It is recommended to consult with a licensed attorney if you fall into any of the above mentioned groups before traveling to Florida in order to assess the level of danger you may encounter in being searched, questioned, and/or arrested.

Since we dast not venture into the Heart of Darkness that is Tallahassee and parts east, west, north and south, you suggest that the beast who dens there is fit to be considered as leader of the great nation of the United States of America? Gasp! Swoon! Amaze and alarm! 🤣

(*Call me an out-of-touch dinosaur, but I can't honestly imagine pregnant travellers deciding that hey, since I'm visiting Disney World, might as well fit a spur of the moment abortion in while I'm here!)

It doesn’t matter. Yes, NYT journalists would care as much, but your average ‘moderate’ undecided blue-leaning voter doesn’t think DeSantis is near as much of a fascist as Trump and it seems highly unlikely the press can replicate 9 years of anti-Trump messaging in the year before an election, even at maximum effort.

your average ‘moderate’ undecided blue-leaning voter doesn’t think DeSantis is near as much of a fascist as Trump

"Not as much" is not the same as "not a fascist".

but your average ‘moderate’ undecided blue-leaning voter doesn’t think DeSantis is near as much of a fascist as Trump

What are you basing this on? Is there polling on this?