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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   2814 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for December 1, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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My God, that is a terrible review, especially since so many of the sins you ascribe to TWW began well before in the historical genre, like Rome 2 making generals mandatory for moving troops, or trade routes being abstracted away.

Yes. I said that it was a very subjective review, and written from a perspective of one who last played Shogun 2, didn't I?

Flying units like bats are meant to counter artillery for factions that lack it themselves. You handle it by focusing ranged units on them as they approach, or keeping cav ready in the backlines to sweep them away as soon as they land, or even dismounting the crews and running them away.

Fair, I guess that's possible.

Aneurysm. You can [...] Doesn't meaningfully interact?? If you can't see the utility of buffing up your own units, healing monsters and cav, turning your lord into a roided monster, or nuking the enemy..

I stand by that. Yeah, magic sucks. It doesn't fit into the gameplay at all. It's completely bolted-on. Sure you can get gameplay advantages out of it, but there are no tactical interactions with it for both sides. The mage just snaps his fingers and a buff happens somewhere on the field, or damage is dealt. It's not like generals who need to balance risk and reward to inspire wavering troops, or artillery that needs to be carefully positioned and protected. It's one very tough unit that gets to apply buffs or AOE damage at extreme distances without needing to take any risks or requiring precise positioning. IMO you can tell how poorly it interfaces with the game at large by how strictly limited magic use is in applications per battle.

It very much does, because if you're not considering sightlines or elevation, then your gunpowder armies are useless. Not to mention that there are serious elevation buffs, units that have a height differential above their enemies get a massive damage buff to their ranged or even melee attacks, and a damage reduction in turn.

I admit, it was hyperbole. Yes terrain matters - but much less so than in earlier TW games, is my impression.

Since you're a fan of Shogun 2, would you agree that naval artillery bombardment, which I believe was in FOTS, has the same "drawbacks" as magic?

It's click a button and magic rocks fall, everyone dies.

It's still not true for magic in TWW3, because:

  1. Most spellcasters are squishy, they can easily get themselves killed by enemy single entity lords, heroes or monsters. Or if you miscast too many times.

  2. Magic offers a great deal of contextual utility. Let's say you're on the offensive against an enemy that doesn't want to budge. Send a mage up, dodging fire, and then launch a bombardment. That gets the AI to move and approach your own favorable position. Or during a siege, helping blast the defenders on walls before you attack. Or using a summoned disposable unit to stuff up an enemy advance, fortify your backlines, or simply tie down their high value units.

I can see many valid critiques of the way magic is handled, but it being of limited utility or not interacting with other systems is a head-scratcher for sure. The reason it's limited, especially by the mana pool, is because it's incredibly powerful if used sensibly.

At any rate, if you really want to get a pike-and-shot experience out of the game, get the Southern Realms mod, which adds something quasi-similar to the Italian city states in the late 1600s. If you restrict your opponents to other similar factions, the Empire or Bretonnia, you don't have to suspend your disbelief too much.

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