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Am I not allowed to use an example that you personally have not used? This is another thing you do a lot - I'll use a common public figure or trope and you object "I never mentioned George Soros." No, you didn't, but Soros-like social manipulation seems to be the sort of thing you are alleging.
A level of power that goes beyond cyclical swings in public mood and political temperature. That is, capable of doing what nybbler claims (no Republican President will ever be elected again) or of always getting their way regardless of who is in the White House and Congress. A level of power that is, figuratively speaking, going to stomp on your face forever.
I admit the Colorado Supreme Court has inched me slightly further in your direction. Not so much the decision itself (which I find troubling, but not being a lawyer I cannot say whether their legal arguments are really that absurd) but the fact that basically all the Democrats I know think it's just great, for no other reason than "Removing Trump from the ballot, hell yeah."
Look dude, this is the new "You are not oppressed," something you feel like you have to bring up every time you argue with me? I did not then and still do not understand why Dangerous-Salt went off on me or what my sin was. No, I do not think the standard has to be literally apocalypticaly high.
I begin to see one of our problems, at least. You tend to take me very literally when I'm using a flippant turn of phrase, while on the other hand when I am being very precise, you ignore it. Maybe the fault is mine for being poor at expressing myself, though somehow I don't think you literally thought I meant all your examples are just crazy college kids on campus. (That, by the way, was another flippant turn of phrase, not literal.)
I suppose the only way forward is to break apart this:
Broadly speaking, I see your point. In the fine details, I would nitpick each of those statements (to take one example, saying you think transwomen are men or homosexuality is a sin is certainly a cancellable/fireable offense in a troubling number of cases, but how true is "as matters of law and regulation" really? As opposed to almost every university and corporation being quislings cowed by HR Karens? Which I think is very bad! But not quite the same as "a matter of law"). To take another, courts and executive branches have been "routinely defying the clear text and obvious intent of the law" (at least according to their opponents) since before the ink on the Constitution was dry. Any specific examples you give, I might or might not agree with, but it would take more than a list of (actual legal cases, not "Wokes Gone Wild" or crazy college kids on campuses, mea culpa mea culpa mea maximum culpa for ever being flippant and cheeky) to convince me that this is categorically different today than 10, 50, 100, or 250 years ago.
I suspect we'll be stuck going back and forth on those. Until I fatigue and then you'll cite Dangerous-Salt again for my "failure to engage."
No, I'm just being extremely clear because I don't want to fuck around and guess at what level of precision you want to use today.
And that's why I separately discussed the figurative meaning (complete with SSC link!) first. Which you didn't engage with.
And then, on the other hand : "No, I do not think the standard has to be literally apocalypticaly high." (Is that literally-literally? Because I'm highlighting merely "Obviously if I'm wrong, you'll never be able to collect," which doesn't require an apocalypse in either the Promethea sense nor the nuclear war one.)
And fair, there's a sliver between this figurative face-stomping and the apocalypse, or even sufficiently aggressive online censorship that you or I'd never show up under these nyms again. Not the same sliver as that which merely excludes “laws I don’t like get passed”, for some reason. Yet if I point to the Tale of Defense Distributed, again, would the current situation be a further update to you? Or would it merely be one in a "list of (actual legal cases)".
If you're not going to engage with it, while trying to draw lines around what level of injustice is sufficient? Yes! But less flippantly, I'm using it as an example because it's your own words, and I don't want to be accused of weakmanning you, and I want to contrast the positions you've stated in the past with the ones we're trying to discuss now, to see if this is a change or a difference in focus or a misinterpretation on my end.
... I would very much appreciate an example of me ignoring a precise claim from you, or for that matter a precise claim from you in this context.
No, I think the bigger problem is that you're ducking to flippancy when I keep requesting specific examples, either of your position or your disagreement with mine. There's a good many interpretations of "Wokes Gone Wild" that includes the EEOC and federal courts -- but in turn they make it increasingly hard to come up with examples you'd care about that could exist before such time that they wouldn't matter.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeee, good thing I've not talked at length about this matter in the past, including in this thread.
Do I really need to point to and litigate the Alabama Association of Realtor case history, and if I did would that mean anything more than a point on a list of actual legal cases? Gustafson? Would it say anything, or would we just need to talk about how some political opponent described something poorly in the last two hundred years and fifty years (uh, I'd hope that's figurative? Or are we back to literal-Civil-War fitting that sliver between figurative face-stomping and literal apocalypse?)
And if I point to things that have been categorically different like the growth of social media or the administration state, would they mean anything?
Fine, if you're sick of it, I'm not exactly having a good time, either. Have a nice rest of your holidays, and enjoy your new year.
Honestly, I wold prefer to, but I was already starting to write responses to your latest shots above. On the one hand, I do not want to be accused of "failure to engage." And to be fair, if it is any comfort to you, you have identified some areas of miscommunication where I will strive to be more precise in the future, if for no other reason than because I need to keep in mind any one-liner I type ever will at some point reappear in one of @gattsuru's "citing evidence for why this thing you said two years ago proves you don't actually mean what you say now" link roundups. But after all this back and forth, I see some of the contours of our disagreement, but I still do not see where you think I am being dishonest or "ignoring" things (as opposed to - quite possibly! - just being wrong in my assumptions), nor do I really understand what you want (other than, I guess, "Stop arguing and just admit I'm right and you're wrong").
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