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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 20, 2023

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You'd be wrong actually - Brazilians have congregated heavily in certain areas of Dublin and are widely viewed as a scourge there (eg, the area I live in, where this attack and subsequent riot took place - literally 100m from my flat).

True, they are more economically productive than the median African or Arab, but have some cultural traits that make them rub Irish people the wrong way. For one, they are more crassly materialistic than even Nigerians, and are heavily involved in every sort of vice trade.

Second, their sexual mores are extraordinarily lax in comparison to the Irish, who would be one of the more chaste European nations - prostitution in Dublin is dominated by Brazilians, and a "Brazilian wife" gives rise to the same sort of sniggering that a "Thai wife" might elicit elsewhere. Brazilians have a reputation as being ruthlessly mercenary in matters romantic, and the visa-marraige-to-ugly-man-until-passport-divorce is a very true pattern I've seen in a mate myself.

Third, they are facilely _un_cynical in a way that grates on Irish people - I have yet to get through a conversation with a Brazilian without them telling me about their "dream of Europe" in such a gormless way as would make a beauty pageant contestant squirm.

What's interesting is that Brazilians actually embody many of the traits that Irish people claim to dislike in Americans, with none of the redeeming characteristics whatsoever.

Third, they are facilely _un_cynical in a way that grates on Irish people - I have yet to get through a conversation with a Brazilian without them telling me about their "dream of Europe" in such a gormless way as would make a beauty pageant contestant squirm.

Do Irish people object to the this because they think the Brazillian is bullshitting, or do they object because they suspect the Brazillian is being honest?

Very interesting way to pose the question.

I can't speak for the entire nation, but I would think it's a saccharine and narcissistic sentiment and stop consideration there - I wouldn't consider how deeply believed it might be by the speaker.

"You Irish sure are a contentious lot."

That's interesting, though. I wasn't aware of the Brazilian presence in Ireland at all.

I'm surprised at this. I haven't heard much bad said about the Brazilians myself but I'm not from Dublin so maybe it's different there. It's a different demographic than the average Brazilian in Ireland but the high population of Brazilians in Gort is considered more of a curiosity than a reason to avoid it.

It does seem we prefer our own tribal groups and immigration seems to stand as an exemplar of the power of elites to override the common will. I suppose Dublin should celebrate being a modern economy? But to be fair to the obnoxious Brazilians, pejorative things are said about immigrants of any stripe in the early days, but differences tend to become less salient with subsequent generations. The other things you talk about could be more related to a marginal economic existence, rather than hard-grained cultural/ethnic? I'm presuming the average Brazilian family doesn't have mum popping out for nightwork?

Ah look, I'm sure they're fine on their own terms - this isn't a critique any Brazilian should take seriously. I'm describing a mob of Brazilians versus any individual, etc.

Behold: classic Irish obsequiousness and indirectness and backpedalling coming out even on an anonymous board. I'm sure a Brazilian could take an equally good potshot at us - I've heard they find our lack of cosmetic surgery troubling and wrongheaded, for example.

As for poverty explaining vice - I don't think that's the case in an interesting way. Sure, poverty drives people to vice - but which vices, and which first, are culture. Brazilians in Ireland are generally here on bad-faith student visas (they must get a stamp from an "english language school" as a visa condition, making these schools de facto a private arm of Irish migration control - this incentive structure leads to exactly the outcome you'd predict) and I don't see, say, Indian students that dool the same visa scam turning en masse to dealing or prostitution.

Fair play, well I'm certainly not immune to arguments about different cultures having different features and I also believe you can privilege some as being more beneficial in some context.

I'm quite a fan of Fukuyama style political philosophy that looks at things like why India failed to have an imperial/hegemonic national system for very long prior to the English. There are many factors... or, why do English colonies seem to maintain institutional elements of governance better than Spanish ones.

And, purely from hearsay, Brazilians have more fun because they are sexually liberated and more fun-loving...