This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Steel manning perhaps isn't the most appropriate response here. The people committing these actions are not careful intellectuals thinking in steel men. We are not debating college professors.
A better approach is to try to imagine and inhabit the emotional state that leads to these actions.
Specifically, the intoxicated perma berserk mental state of holy war. The serene vision of dominance and power, of divine righteousness, of inevitable victory. The crusader mindset.
You are right! You are powerful! The heathens will fall before you! The kingdom of god shall rise, and with it, you!
The reason for vandalizing a Starbucks or McDonalds is to exercise power. To revel in wrathful indulgence. To show that the will of god is in fact supreme over the heathen merchants.
Ultimately, they are breaking the rules, they are doing something to someone against their will, and they are getting away with it. This is almost worth doing for its own sake, a flimsy nonsensical political pretext pushes it into viability.
It's not entirely-obvious that they will get away with it; we don't have as much of an anti-police movement here in Oz (lack of a racial component helps a lot with that), and my understanding is that this kind of mass vandalism is not normal. There could well be some arrests (particularly if the protestors weren't masked; security cameras are a thing).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link