This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What is the percentage of Israelis who have dual passports?
Jews’ reverse immigration from Israel is on the rise
They would not be refugees, but citizens legally returning to their countries. Jews of Ashkenazi origin in Israel (these are the Jews everyone fears, no one is concerned about Arab and Ethiopian Jews) do have US or EU citizenship or are eligible for one.
European countries rules for citizenship by descent are more generous you would imagine.
"Second passport" is class marker in Israel. See the family in the link from my previous reply - they had US passports and could easily move to US with intent to "stay forever".
...
BK is good representative of settler mindset.
...
People from first world countries who move to Israel do not come for prosperity, opportunity, safety or great life in general. They come because they want to live in holy land.
You proposed that Israel shall recruit "compentent" non-Jews who do not want to become Jewish. You need to answer what could Israel offer them.
...
To make racism, colonialism and white supremacy popular and cool again? The last time when it was the case it was not so good for the Jews.
Why'd you call them refugees then? As you said, these people are already freely moving in and out of wherever I live. Nothing I can do about it, perhaps if we let the Arabs finish them off there would be fewer of them showing up at the border than now.
Land, economic opportunities, women, idk? Whatever reason the Israelis want to live there in the first place.
When Britain gave zionists Palestine? How are Jews doing in Britain today?
You said:
Help making white supremacy cool again and perhaps they'll be safe from that.
Israelis come across as choosing beggars to me.
Israel will apparently quickly run out of allies if it's not even willing to support the continued existence of their nations. If Israelis expect white people to carry the bag for them eternally then I believe that they should have schoolkids recite this pledge every morning:
LOL. Desert land is available all over the world for free or equivalent of pocket change. No one is stopping you from buying few acres in Arizona and putting your trailer there.
Double LOL. Have you ever checked Israeli wages, prices and taxes?
If you mean sex slavery, this would mean Israel turning into ISIS style shithole, burning all bridges with the rest of the world and relying solely on nuclear threat to survive.
Only most desperate psychopaths would sign up for such life.
Israelis live there because they were born there, or, in case of immigrants from Russia, Ethiopia or other shitholes, because it is still better option than what they had at home.
I say again, people, especially "competent people" who come to Israel from the first world developed countries, do it because they believe it is holy land and want to live there.
British were never known for "giving" something for free.
Britain promised Palestine in the most desperate days of WWI. When the danger was over, it first cut down the promised land by 4/5 ("Palestine" in Balfour dealaration meant what is today Israel+Palestine and today's kingdom of Jordan). Then the Brits were for 20 years "balancing" the Arabs and Jews by backstabbing them both in the usual British way.
...
Rather well.
Religion, education and work in England and Wales: February 2020
...
White nationalists/separatists/supremacists are not even on Israeli radar. The most important Israeli allies, outside of Jewish community, are evangelical Christians, and this movement is growing world wide - not counting people who support Israel because they hate Muslims.
For example, Latin America is in popular imagination seen as 100% Catholic continent. Used to be, but, in the last decades one fifth of Catholics left the church for evangelical churches and the trend is accelerating.
And these Evangelicals tend to be proudly Zionist. Israel is not going to have shortage of friends and allies.
Some disagree with you
Great, they don't need my or my people's money then.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link