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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   2385 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for November 3, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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What I do find baffling is how inconsequential the use of Unforgiveable Curses is

I think that's just the way transferring original material to another medium works (you see it a heck of a lot in fanfiction, and in media it's often a form of fanservice that isn't the 'boobs and butt' type): there's this Cool Thing, you want to see/be able to do the Cool Thing, we're gonna sell it on 'your character can do the Cool Thing/the main characters do the Cool Thing' and so whether it's movies or games or what you will, the Cool Thing gets done willy-nilly.

In the books, there's a moral and ethical price - after all, this is why they're called "Unforgiveable" Curses. But when you're doing a tie-in/spin-off of a major franchise that is a licence to print money, you weigh up "Do I make it so that Cool Thing is rare and dangerous, or do I let your main character be the one who can do Cool Thing at will to blast the mooks because You're Just That Special?" and you decide "the fans want Cool Thing, if I don't give them Cool Thing they won't buy this".

So now you can go around zapping people with Unforgiveable Curses because that's what the majority of customers want. I also think there's a certain coarsening around morals and ethics in recent years (I know this is going to come across as "kids these days") but we've had a CW thread about "why bother with rules in war, the most effective way to win is crush the enemy and by shortening the war aren't you saving lives, so hell yeah use chemical weapons, bomb civilians, whatever it takes so you win fast and hard!". That to me is the mindset which goes "Unforgiveable Curses are really effective, use them, never mind the bleating about morals or the effect on the soul, pshaw!"

While I think you’re spot on regarding Cool Things, and the coarsening is plausible, I would hesitate to use this site as a bellwether for public morals and ethics. It’s very, very self-selected for edgy contrarianism.

That's true, but I have seen such attitudes expressed elsewhere and some years back. I do think there's been (for whatever reason) a genuine lack of understanding about rules of civility, where it's "but it's war (or other conflict or struggle), why wouldn't you do all you could to win, no matter what it takes?" That there are some things that are just wrong to do seems to be completely out the window. Whether that's due to "but we're the Good Guys so it's okay for us to do it" thinking or not, I can't say.

I am not sure how new it is, ending WW2 with nukes was arguably a breach of those erhics of civility in the service of ending the war quicker and thus saving more lives overall, is basically exactly the same logic you were talking about. Down to the same debates really.

Hardly - the destruction of civilian population centers with strategic bombing was not new in 1945. It was something accepted and widely used by all sides. nor was the use of nuclear weapons rationalised in those terms until later.

Thats...my point. It isn't some new invention, to breach the "civilized norms" of war. Because everyone accepted targeting civilians was ok then, so complaining about people now and making it some criticism of modern people wanting to break the sacred rules of war is nonsensical. We've always justified it to ourselves. Whether its targeting civilians, using weapons of mass destruction and so on.

It wasn't new then and it isn't new now.

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