This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
To you and @dovetailing; this is indeed a deeply personal matter. As I said, I used a version of the Courage international program, although run independently rather than institutionally, and courage international claims a higher than average success rate. Take that claim with as much or little salt as you prefer. I do not particularly like dwelling on it, but I think that I probably benefitted psychologically in ways other than changing my sexuality. I do not have the therapy workbook nor do I intend to try to dig up the journal I kept, but there was a companion book called, I think, Battle for Normality and written by a Dutch psychologist which explained much of the theory, at least. Everyone involved was male, although that would have been different had I been female(or at least, so I was told), and my same sex attraction was treated as an ordinary character flaw similar to a propensity to overeat or to excessive drinking.
As for motivation, it was really twofold- I found(and still do) ‘LGBT culture’ a creepy, offputting, fetishistic, hypersexualized, and just generally kind of gross exercise in putting on a performance of doing things that would get heterosexual men arrested, and also for religious reasons(as one would expect from having used courage international). I consider it to have been successful, and that this success was probably in part because I was bisexual, not gay. It was at the time difficult, occasionally caused distress, but in the way that difficult things worth doing often do. And I think having the attitude that it would be a difficult but worth doing way to improve also was an important reason; I did not think I was taking a magic pill.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link