naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #3
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
It's not necessarily about a public apology, but rather admitting where the 'new' idea you are bringing in comes from. Something akin to "This is an idea that's been popular in right wing circles for a long time, and I think there's something we can learn from those ideas." There's a difference to suddenly saying you believe that college students have been indoctrinated to hate Israel as if it's an idea that came out of the void, and saying while also noting that some right-wing commentators have been banging that drum for years.
The right wing seems much more willing to take ideas from the left while acknowledging the origin of them, whereas left wing will take the ideas sometimes but without acknowledging the origin of them. Not that I have stats on it, of course.
From my own political experience, this topic does cut across partisan lines. Seeing antisemitism firsthand when I went to university was a moment of "mugging by reality" that made me pull out of the reflexively in, hip, progressive left-wing whatever you want to call it that most people of that age group in higher education automatically gravitated towards. It's one of the three major experiences that formulated my political beliefs.
That sort of admission does strike me as more plausible, but it’s still not something I expect to see. Not outside of Gray Tribe weirdos trying to calibrate their predictions.
Maybe as countersignaling, or an attempt to claim horseshoe theory? I could imagine Moldbug saying “the Cathedral is so wrong, they’re right about such-and-such.” But I don’t really know if that counts, since reaction is pretty open about looting the reasonable stuff from mainstream society.
Do you have any anecdotes in mind, where the right wing made such an acknowledgment?
I think you can find examples of Trump supporters saying Bernie and the far left in general were "right" about certain topics, like tariffs and economic protectionism, that used to be extremely unpopular among Republicans.
But for many of them, the "new" idea wouldn't come from conservatives but from the previous generations and iterations of moderate/pro-Israel liberalism, which have historically been a notable institution, and still are, and many of whom have also bashed the anti-Israel movement many times before.
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Notes -
It's not necessarily about a public apology, but rather admitting where the 'new' idea you are bringing in comes from. Something akin to "This is an idea that's been popular in right wing circles for a long time, and I think there's something we can learn from those ideas." There's a difference to suddenly saying you believe that college students have been indoctrinated to hate Israel as if it's an idea that came out of the void, and saying while also noting that some right-wing commentators have been banging that drum for years.
The right wing seems much more willing to take ideas from the left while acknowledging the origin of them, whereas left wing will take the ideas sometimes but without acknowledging the origin of them. Not that I have stats on it, of course.
From my own political experience, this topic does cut across partisan lines. Seeing antisemitism firsthand when I went to university was a moment of "mugging by reality" that made me pull out of the reflexively in, hip, progressive left-wing whatever you want to call it that most people of that age group in higher education automatically gravitated towards. It's one of the three major experiences that formulated my political beliefs.
That sort of admission does strike me as more plausible, but it’s still not something I expect to see. Not outside of Gray Tribe weirdos trying to calibrate their predictions.
Maybe as countersignaling, or an attempt to claim horseshoe theory? I could imagine Moldbug saying “the Cathedral is so wrong, they’re right about such-and-such.” But I don’t really know if that counts, since reaction is pretty open about looting the reasonable stuff from mainstream society.
Do you have any anecdotes in mind, where the right wing made such an acknowledgment?
I think you can find examples of Trump supporters saying Bernie and the far left in general were "right" about certain topics, like tariffs and economic protectionism, that used to be extremely unpopular among Republicans.
Also the isolationist right will say similar about left-wing anti-war positions.
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But for many of them, the "new" idea wouldn't come from conservatives but from the previous generations and iterations of moderate/pro-Israel liberalism, which have historically been a notable institution, and still are, and many of whom have also bashed the anti-Israel movement many times before.
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