This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
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Notes -
Related, but not exactly the same topic, this Tweet from a Jerusalem Post columnist in response to pro-Palestine protest marches in London really struck me:
While I am not an anti-Semite and could reasonably be described as mildly philo-Semitic, goddamn this kind of thing looks terrible from the perspective of anyone that isn't particularly Islam-friendly. To be blunt about it, I don't like Islam and wish there had never been any Muslim immigrants to Western nations. To the extent that Muslim immigration to Western nations is tolerable, it's the extent to which those Muslims practice a liberalized, watered-down form of Islam that is barely recognizable as anything other than generic monotheism with a couple idiosyncrasies of diet thrown in. Having places with women in beekeeper outfits everywhere sucks and I think most Americans and Brits that are being bluntly honest about the matter agree.
Of course, saying that out loud plays terribly, because somehow we decided that "Islamophobia" is a sin. Unless, apparently, you're Jewish, in which case you're able to write things like the above. Saying, "how are Brits supposed to live with this?" is off the table, but catering to the tiny segment of British Jews, that is an important consideration when it comes to whether having a bunch of jihad enthusiasts in London is a bad idea. If someone like me that likes Jews, likes Israel, and basically agrees with the claim in the Tweet finds this style of thinking grating, I'd wager that the anti-Semites would be just about apoplectic.
To steelman, the Jerusalem Post columnist is less responding to "pro-Palestine marches", but what he sees as specifically pro-Hamas and often pro-October 7th protests. It's a little less easy to provide examples in the United Kingdom, given the officially-steep punishments for support of Hamas or violence, but to everyone's non-surprise enforcement is a more complex matter and explicit support of Hamas, intifada, or generally "from river to sea" style not-very-deniable stuff were supposedly pretty common. And the head of police decided that the police shouldn't be making charges for hate crimes acts where it's political or anything.
To break that steelman, even that has been a sin to other alliances and allegiances. Reacting to "KillAllMen" or "EndWhiteness" or Solanas fangirling or the like hasn't been acceptable in mainstream discourse for literally a decade, if not longer. For whatever these laws and rules and norms that the Post author wants to bring down might have claimed equal protection and equal restriction to all, in practice they exist to protect 'the powerless', where this is defined in some coincidentally very political directions.
So in many ways, it's 'just' that Freeman is surprised to find that groups he likes are on the other side of that scale for once. And there's certainly people for whom that's a cutting criticism, not just of their current arguments but their entire philosophy -- Chemerinsky is the punching-bag du jour, as he's provided long and significant philosophical support and institutional inaction -- but it's not clear Freeman, specifically, is a particularly central example of that set. He's no universalist hero who complained when other people's ox were getting gored, don't get me wrong, but neither was he waiting until this moment to notice that his group was often pushed to the outside.
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And every single one of those people was blasted as racist, and throttled by Big Tech. How exactly do you expect your list to prove that what they were saying was widely seen as acceptable by the establishment?
The fact that they're popular doesn't change the fact that what they're saying is seen as outside the bounds of acceptable discourse by the establishment. If they are within said bounds, then Big Tech trying to limit their reach should be a national, or international scandal.
The fact that they're able to reach their audience has nothing to do with the argument that what they're saying is seen as unacceptable in polite discourse, as opposed to a Jewish person saying literally the same thing.
If the cries of "racist" were limited to nobodies on the internet, no one would care. The problem is that they come from every respectable institution that claims to be neutral, only explicitly right-wing institutions don't do it. It is then a bit rich to hear the exact same complaint they were making from people calling them racist all this time.
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You're right, I should have explicitly stated that I was referring to "Islamophobia" being unacceptable in liberal circles and coding as a hard-right sentiment. The JP columnist I linked to is very much on the broader left, and I suppose I still think of that set as my ingroup.
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What am I looking at in that tweet? Guess I'm supposed to know that's a pro-Hamas protest?
I didn't investigate, I assume it'll be the mixed bag that a lot of these protests are, with some combination of people that would say they're just pro-Palestinian and others being more hardcore.
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I don't understand why it's his fault that you can't criticize islam without the woke singing you the song of the oppressed.
Whether it's his fault or not is orthogonal to the point that it sucks that saying, "this sucks for Jews" is fine, but saying, "this sucks for Brits" isn't.
You only found out now that the identity of the victim or of the speaker matters more to the woke than the facts or the content of the speech? Why is it grating or apoplexy-inducing to have people agree with you?
I quickly went through his twitter (my god, is this woke/girlbossy style tiresome).
But aside from the usual profession of faith
He seems very very focused on antisemitism, especially from other progressives. I didn’t see any condamnation of ‘white’ islamophobia.
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My world-renowned and extremely rigorous vibe analysis says
he is literally one of the woke even now, and this entire ordeal has barely shaken his faith in the SocJus movementthat I am retarded and fell for an obvious troll.More options
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