site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 23, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I have my own hypothesis which is that the way that we’re trying to solve the race problems tends to make the racial disparities worse.

Taking Affirmative Action as an example. Well, there are two problems here that actually hurt the black community. First, it essentially creates a siphon of any marginally talented black person. If he’s smart enough to get through school and hard working enough to hold down a decent job, he leaves the inner city ghetto. Furthermore, almost none of the money he makes goes back into that community unless he makes a special effort. On top of that, the profits of his labor go, again, outside of this community. This creates an effective brain drain for the community. The people with the smarts and work ethic get sucked out to greener pastures. I5 also removes their positive example in that community. No one living in a community like that knows anyone who made a good life for himself by study and work — those people are in the suburbs. What’s left behind are the thieves or drug runners who make good money, or the wage slaves that struggle to feed and clothe their families.

The other part is that there aren’t a lot of black owned businesses. Part of this is simply the modern economy in which large companies can so easily leverage economies of scale that it’s hard to get a new business started. Part of it is the difficulty especially for the relatively poor to get loans to start businesses. Part of it is that people living there don’t have the skills. But the reason that black owned local businesses are important is that locally owned businesses are one of the few ways for any community to get money into the community and to stay in the community once it gets there. Immigrants use this to great effect. They open an ethnic restaurant hire local immigrants to do the work, feed a bunch of yuppies, then the immigrants use their wages in the local ethnic shops, as do immigrants who don’t work in the community. In other words, money comes in and stays in. This creates a wealth base, and as they pay taxes they’re more respectable to local government. They’re setting an example of hard work and study that kids can see paying off.