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Do you have any pieces of evidence to back this up? I've always known sexual liberation to have sprung forth from women's liberation movements as a means of freeing women's sexuality from the heel of men's control, and all the sources I can find seem to support this. It seems to require some justification to suppose that, despite the sexual revolution happening coincident with women's liberation and promoted by a lot of the same people that it's actually men who did it.
I mean, I've long suspected that something like this would happen—backed by seemingly naked reasoning that since it's benefiting men at the expense of women (it isn't—we're just blind to social costs to men in general), that it must have therefore been perpetrated by them. And, like, not all feminists were thrilled about it. It's exactly what I imagined while doomdreaming in English 3 all those years ago, which is weird.
You have never set foot in or read any thinking generated by any incel community—please stop spreading misinformation about what they believe. They have been unambiguously skeptical about the sexual liberation and its consequences for reasons similar if not identical to yours for over a decade now—far before it became a borderline mainstream curiosity—back when they were a nameless, nascent subculture on r9k 1.0. I don't know how long you've been woke on this, but chances are good that's longer than you.
Anyways, while I'm feeling so goddamn ahead of the curve, I'll share my next prophecy: I see little skirmishes going on right now between fringe groups on Twitter about pornography use and how comparable it is to sexual promiscuity in terms of how debasing to one's sexual purity it is. This argument is the future. Right-wingers don't yet know it, but in the coming years they will be joining forces with feminists on this topic. As sexual mores continue to tighten here in straightsville and monogamy becomes more in vogue again, pristine male virgins will start to wonder aloud why they are being asked so expectantly why they aren't hitching it with ran-through born again virgins. Since for many cultural reasons we can't turn the clocks back to virginity being a female-only phenomenon, we'll be in need of a modern, horse-driven-car-frame solution, which this false equivocation offers.
"You defected too, anon."
I simply don't understand how it's possible to persist this belief in a post-Fifty Shades world. Then again, it's become clear to me how impossible it is to dislodge highly load-bearing beliefs with facts, even it's something like the best selling book ever written by human hands. I'd say "excluding religious texts", but it's unclear to me that Fifty Shades of Gray isn't the religious text for the female sexual id. I suppose it's easy for me to see it that way, because I was never burdened with the Female Sexual Purity myth. You see, my secondary stomping grounds as a curious teenager was Tumblr, and if you knew where to look (which I did), you could hear what teenage girls were saying when they thought no one was listening.
And let me tell you, it's rather difficult to maintain an image of girls being somehow "less sexual" or even "more pure" by the time you're not even surprised any more to stumble across a thread with dozens of them waxing licentious about all the ways in which they would love to let fictional video game villain Sephiroth Ragnarok destroy their pussy. I was well aware at the time that a lot of this was essentially femmechismo—girls' locker room talk—but we've never let such considerations get in the way of how we perceive boys and men.
What wasn't as clear to me at the time was how universal this sort of thing actually was and is—but then, of course, Shades happened.
They already have - there was an unholy alliance between radfems and religious conservatives against porn.
I've seen them agree that it's bad, I haven't yet seen them agree that watching porn is like being sexually promiscuous.
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They get married in the Shades series, which seems to support the theory that a woman’s fantasy includes marriage.
They weren't married before or after all the fucking they did in the first novel, which is the one that sold so well.
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Yeah I agree, this doesn’t contradict what I’m saying.
You mention this a few times when actually it’s a perfect example of what I’m saying. In Fifty Shades, a plain young woman becomes the obsession of a handsome billionaire who will stop at nothing to make her his. The S&M is merely set dressing on top of this eternal romance plot, which is essentially Cinderella. The franchise of Fifty Shades ends with the main character happily married to Mr Grey and pregnant with their second child lmao, it’s the epitome of what I’m saying.
The telling thing is that smut for women almost never involves a large number of sexual partners for the protagonist. Like Fifty Shades, the fantasy for woman is one man, not many - and almost never more than two in a love triangle. Almost no romance novels involve the protagonist going out and sleeping with many men as the narrative of the book, this isn’t generally appealing to women.
Yeah, but in most of their fantasies and in the fanfic they read, Sephiroth is in love with them / their boyfriend etc etc etc. They’re not fantasising about getting pumped and dumped by him, they fantasise about him falling in love with them, or with a male stand in for them in the case of Yaoi stuff.
Sigh.
This is what you said. Incel subculture hasn't "seemingly realized" the consequences of the sexual revolution. They were always aware of it; it was a defining element of their understanding of it since day one.
They absolutely, positively, do not "want it".
They absolutely, positively, do not view themselves as "temporarily embarrassed chads".
They absolutely, positively, are not upset that they are not "on top of the sexual hierarchy, not that the sexual hierarchy exists."
They absolutely, positively, not concerned about "position, rather than the system itself".
It's actually incredible, because while there is a lot of variety in what the communities believe, your accusations represent perhaps the inverse of the positions that actually unite them.
Are you serious?
Christian Gray is a combo ATM + Sex Robot. If this is the caliber of "romance" men need to match to stop the sexual rat-race you describe, I humbly rest my case.
That's funny, I don't recall reading that part.
Yes I am also aware that women do this in addition to fantasizing about getting railed by strongest, fittest men that they can imagine. When men do something like this, it's called a Madonna/Whore complex.
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As far as I'm concerned, my view is that the Sexual Revolution was mainly driven by women, not men. It's not something I feel like discussing here in detail right now, but for now I will offer this as food for thought: I find it self-evident that men initiating casual/premarital/extramarital sex with women only becomes socially sanctioned behavior (within limits) if it becomes a socially accepted reality that at least a significant minority of women is down for something like that.
Right, and if you zoom out, you find a near 1:1 correlation with female empowerment leading to libertine sexual values—what with the most male dominated societies on Earth stoning people to death for sex out of wedlock.
This is also difficult to explain if you think Men Did It.
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