naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
My understanding is that the Hoovers B section was sometimes thinner than initially promoted, sometimes down to 50m, and there's some amount of mumbling for how deep the underground anti-tunnel wall components of the barrier was, but otherwise the implementation was largely as described.
No land mines or electrified fence.
Both Kerem Shalom and Erez crossings were taken early, but so there were also breaks at least five other fence locations that did not have crossings, many of which were at parts of the border that matched the specifications exactly, along with limited aerial and boat forces.
I haven't seen a complete tactical breakdown of the initial attack, and some of it probably will never be released to the public, but my impression's that Hamas (and other related groups) overwhelmed or misdirected the immediately available response capabilities, then struck the observation and command posts before either a general alarm or backup response troops could be mustered. Some of that reflects reduced staffing because of a religious holiday, but more generally I don't think the IDF expected that Hamas could achieve this degree of coordination nor the simple amount of weapons and manpower without clear intel piling up for the IDF, nor that Hamas could accurately identify the observation control centers for the sort of strike blinding the surveillance side.
there were also breaks at least five other fence locations that did not have crossings
This is the real concern. This wasn't an isolated failing, but an indication that the system was wholly inadequate.
There needs to be an expansion of Defense in Depth with an appreciation of Hamas' now proven capabilities. As far as I can tell, this is actually the plan regarding annexing a buffer region around the border of Gaza. With a larger buffer/sterile zone you improve the ability to detect as well as provide enough delay to allow for a response.
Besides the physical and electronic security controls, there will need to be an overhaul of governance (response procedures), training and manpower requirements. No more skeleton crews on holidays. There's also more patchwork that needs to happen around air and seaborne detection of assaults as well as the border intersection with Egypt.
Basically the whole system needs upgrading with a big uplift in the amount of money, resources and manpower to maintain it.
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Notes -
My understanding is that the Hoovers B section was sometimes thinner than initially promoted, sometimes down to 50m, and there's some amount of mumbling for how deep the underground anti-tunnel wall components of the barrier was, but otherwise the implementation was largely as described.
No land mines or electrified fence.
Both Kerem Shalom and Erez crossings were taken early, but so there were also breaks at least five other fence locations that did not have crossings, many of which were at parts of the border that matched the specifications exactly, along with limited aerial and boat forces.
I haven't seen a complete tactical breakdown of the initial attack, and some of it probably will never be released to the public, but my impression's that Hamas (and other related groups) overwhelmed or misdirected the immediately available response capabilities, then struck the observation and command posts before either a general alarm or backup response troops could be mustered. Some of that reflects reduced staffing because of a religious holiday, but more generally I don't think the IDF expected that Hamas could achieve this degree of coordination nor the simple amount of weapons and manpower without clear intel piling up for the IDF, nor that Hamas could accurately identify the observation control centers for the sort of strike blinding the surveillance side.
That explains a lot, thanks.
This is the real concern. This wasn't an isolated failing, but an indication that the system was wholly inadequate.
There needs to be an expansion of Defense in Depth with an appreciation of Hamas' now proven capabilities. As far as I can tell, this is actually the plan regarding annexing a buffer region around the border of Gaza. With a larger buffer/sterile zone you improve the ability to detect as well as provide enough delay to allow for a response.
Besides the physical and electronic security controls, there will need to be an overhaul of governance (response procedures), training and manpower requirements. No more skeleton crews on holidays. There's also more patchwork that needs to happen around air and seaborne detection of assaults as well as the border intersection with Egypt.
Basically the whole system needs upgrading with a big uplift in the amount of money, resources and manpower to maintain it.
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