naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
orthoxerox
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1yr ago
I think at least for me, the question is “what exactly are the Jews supposed to do here?”
The answer is a bit glib, but "build a wall along the 1947 border and withdraw behind it, accept Palestinian sovereignty over the other half and UN authority over Jerusalem and two border quadripoints" would at least mean that the overwhelming majority of accusations against Israel would no longer have a leg to stand on.
The problem is that without military control over Golan/West Bank, Israel is an incredibly indefensible country. Israel's leaders understandably don't trust the "World opinion" from protecting them from real armies. This is a good primer: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ulHDsnhh_Cc
Palestinians then spend some time obtaining weapons, blow up said wall, attack again, Israel fights back and either we're back where we started with Israel occupying large portions of territory or Israel loses and is destroyed. A two-state solution can't work because the Palestinian state is never going to let off warring with the Israeli one. A one-state democracy where all are equal can't work because as soon as the Palestinians vote themselves in control of it they kill all the Jews.
The 1947 border is even less easily defensible, and as was seen earlier with the celebrations of ‘75 years of occupation’ (not 56), the Palestinians don’t really care about the UN borders anyway. That is, after all, what “from the river to the sea” means.
orthoxerox
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2rafa 1yr ago
Who cares what Palestinians themselves think? If the overwhelming public opinion worldwide is "they've been given what they deserve, the UN deal is literally the most fair deal they could get" and then Palestinians democratically elect a government that claims the internationally recognized territory of Israel and tries to press the claim, Israel is free to pummel them into submission until they are willing to accept a peacekeeping mission with a High Representative with extraordinary powers like the one in BiH.
Palestinians democratically elect a government that claims the internationally recognized territory of Israel and tries to press the claim, Israel is free to pummel them into submission
I don’t see why we can’t just fast forward to exactly that happening and the exact situation as today’s repeating itself except with vastly more casualties on the Israeli side, large numbers of people displaced by fighting, huge economic damage etc.
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Notes -
The answer is a bit glib, but "build a wall along the 1947 border and withdraw behind it, accept Palestinian sovereignty over the other half and UN authority over Jerusalem and two border quadripoints" would at least mean that the overwhelming majority of accusations against Israel would no longer have a leg to stand on.
The problem is that without military control over Golan/West Bank, Israel is an incredibly indefensible country. Israel's leaders understandably don't trust the "World opinion" from protecting them from real armies. This is a good primer: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ulHDsnhh_Cc
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Palestinians then spend some time obtaining weapons, blow up said wall, attack again, Israel fights back and either we're back where we started with Israel occupying large portions of territory or Israel loses and is destroyed. A two-state solution can't work because the Palestinian state is never going to let off warring with the Israeli one. A one-state democracy where all are equal can't work because as soon as the Palestinians vote themselves in control of it they kill all the Jews.
Well yeah, Israel is pretty much Fitzcarraldo. It should never have existed.
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The 1947 border is even less easily defensible, and as was seen earlier with the celebrations of ‘75 years of occupation’ (not 56), the Palestinians don’t really care about the UN borders anyway. That is, after all, what “from the river to the sea” means.
Who cares what Palestinians themselves think? If the overwhelming public opinion worldwide is "they've been given what they deserve, the UN deal is literally the most fair deal they could get" and then Palestinians democratically elect a government that claims the internationally recognized territory of Israel and tries to press the claim, Israel is free to pummel them into submission until they are willing to accept a peacekeeping mission with a High Representative with extraordinary powers like the one in BiH.
That's the current situation with cosmetic changes.
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I don’t see why we can’t just fast forward to exactly that happening and the exact situation as today’s repeating itself except with vastly more casualties on the Israeli side, large numbers of people displaced by fighting, huge economic damage etc.
Well, withdrawing from Palestine while immediately being replaced with a BiH-style peacekeeping force could work as well.
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