naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I would be interested to hear from someone more informed about the conflict whether there is any border other than "Free Palestine, from the river to the sea" that can be acceptable to a critical mass of Palestinians.
Progressive Hamas supporters speak as if Israel pulling back to 1967 borders and ending the Gaza blockade will bring eternal peace, but the average Palestinian on twitter or any video clip that ends up on Social media just seems happy as long of Jewish blood is spilled and regards every bit of Israel-Palestine as theirs.
Someone should run the numbers and figure out how much is spent over a 40 year period maintaining the Palestinian territories. Then we divide that number by the number of Palestinians. That's a reasonable upper bound for paying them to leave. It might be well under a million, though.
The irony is that if in 1948 those who were forced to flee Palestine had gone somewhere with birthright citizenship, or if the supposedly pro-Palestinian Arab states had granted them citizenship, there would be essentially no such thing as "Palestinians" because almost no one would think if themselves in those terms. We certainly would not have idiocies like this: "When the [UN] Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5.9 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services." Nor would we have the even greater idiocy of 1.5 million people living in refugee camps.
But in all seriousness, this is strictly a hypothetical I'm using to prove that peace is technically possible. Once we know a peaceful solution is technically possible, then we figure out the logistics.
If you paid off the KKK to stop lynching people, I'm sure a million dollars per member would convince them to stop lynching people. That is not really a reason to say "the KKK may be satisfied with something other than lynching people".
"Be satisfied" doesn't mean "be satisfied by any condition, no matter how unlikely". This is just another example of over-literalness on the Internet.
The difference is that the KKK could theoretically convert new members at any time. Palestinians aren't merely an ideological group. They're a group bonded by, pardon the expression, blood and soil. Finding a way to remove them from their territory without pissing them or the rest of the world off would solve the problem permanently.
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Notes -
I would be interested to hear from someone more informed about the conflict whether there is any border other than "Free Palestine, from the river to the sea" that can be acceptable to a critical mass of Palestinians.
Progressive Hamas supporters speak as if Israel pulling back to 1967 borders and ending the Gaza blockade will bring eternal peace, but the average Palestinian on twitter or any video clip that ends up on Social media just seems happy as long of Jewish blood is spilled and regards every bit of Israel-Palestine as theirs.
If every Palestinian was relocated to Canada with the equivalent of 1 million USD in their pocket, might they be satisfied?
I'm sure a few of them would resent forced relocation, but maybe the majority of them would be cool with it.
There are 3 million people in the west bank and 2 million people in the gaza strip.
5 trillion Dollars to buy a solution to the middle east conflict is not impossible, but pretty steep.
Though the problem only compounds over time: Fertility rate is 3.2 and even 3.97 in Gaza. Look at this population pyramid:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_State_of_Palestine
Someone should run the numbers and figure out how much is spent over a 40 year period maintaining the Palestinian territories. Then we divide that number by the number of Palestinians. That's a reasonable upper bound for paying them to leave. It might be well under a million, though.
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The irony is that if in 1948 those who were forced to flee Palestine had gone somewhere with birthright citizenship, or if the supposedly pro-Palestinian Arab states had granted them citizenship, there would be essentially no such thing as "Palestinians" because almost no one would think if themselves in those terms. We certainly would not have idiocies like this: "When the [UN] Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5.9 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services." Nor would we have the even greater idiocy of 1.5 million people living in refugee camps.
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what about Canada being satisfied?
Canada loves refugees, hardy har har.
But in all seriousness, this is strictly a hypothetical I'm using to prove that peace is technically possible. Once we know a peaceful solution is technically possible, then we figure out the logistics.
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Honestly given the way things currently are, Canada probably would be satisfied.
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If you paid off the KKK to stop lynching people, I'm sure a million dollars per member would convince them to stop lynching people. That is not really a reason to say "the KKK may be satisfied with something other than lynching people".
"Be satisfied" doesn't mean "be satisfied by any condition, no matter how unlikely". This is just another example of over-literalness on the Internet.
The difference is that the KKK could theoretically convert new members at any time. Palestinians aren't merely an ideological group. They're a group bonded by, pardon the expression, blood and soil. Finding a way to remove them from their territory without pissing them or the rest of the world off would solve the problem permanently.
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