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The person I replied to suggested that Ukraine should take western weapons and win the war, and gave Poland as an example of this as a successful strategy. I pointed out that Poland achieved success by peaceful diplomatic means. If the West pushed weapons into Polish hands at that time, that would have been clear warmongering, because history proved that peaceful solution was possible. I did not refer to the recent events in Ukraine as western warmongering, only the hypothetical scenario where west pushes citizens of Polish People’s Republic to war with Soviet Union.
Now, let me explicitly say here that the current western strategy of funding Ukrainian military with the explicit, openly repeated goal of weakening Russian state and military, under the assumption of good ROI in terms of monetary spend/materiel relative to achieved damage to Russia, and with zero concern for Ukrainian blood being spilled to achieve these goals, and disregard for ultimate likelihood of Ukrainian victory, very much is warmongering.
Without the western “support”, the (stupid and evil) Russian invasion would be over with by now, and much less blood would have been spilled, and wealth and livelihoods destroyed, for pretty much the same ultimate geopolitical outcome. However, the West has clearly chosen strategy of slow trickle of support to pull in and attrit Russians as much as possible.
Ukraine would accept a peaceful resolution in a second. When has Ukraine invaded Russia? When have they not tried diplomacy.
You are just building strawmen that have no connection to reality.
Peace was never offered to Ukraine. Their choice was subjugation and cultural genocide at a minimum or war. And as ive said War has the higher expected value and that includes in terms of saving life than choosing subjugation.
There only option was being a landless people.
Peace with concessions is still peace, regardless of how much you insist it is not. As it is, they chose cultural and literal genocide in place of a risk of just cultural genocide. The Ukrainians are being killed by tens, likely even hundreds of thousands. With so many emigres, it is highly likely that even after cessation of hostilities, whatever remains of Ukraine will be permanently demographically crippled. It is ridiculous to argue that Ukraine being completely subjugated by Russia would mean more demographic damage than the war has caused: nothing of the sort happened to other nations subjugated by Russians (in fact, Russian nationalists today routinely complain about how often the Russian Federation acts more in the interest of the minority ethnicities than ethnic Russians).
Russia was offering literal genocide. Someone literally said their life would be awful but atleast with Peace they could be alcoholics. That is not a society that reproduces. They would have enough wealth if they win the war for their people to flourish and reproduce.
What is wrong with the right today that they just want to give up and have no hope for a better future.
Like I said before, if that's literal genocide, we have a lot bigger problems than Russia...
How is it not? You’re basically saying slow suicide is better than fighting for your life. I’d rather die trying to have a life than to have no options to further my lineage.
Not saying that it's not, but no western country is reproducing itself, and anyone concerned with that is deemed evil.
The Afghans fought for their life, the Ukrainians are fighting for getting back on the trajectory towards slow suicide.
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So they picked both? This is what happens to the descendants of Ukrainian nationalists in the West per @kurwakatyn
Isn't there a contradiction in a ardently nationalist country striving to join the EU or US orbit?
What if they join the EU and Russian-speaking EU citizens from Finland or Germany start moving in? Or would they start begging the EU to close its borders like Poland?
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