site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 18, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Agreed, but at the same time I think this needs a new word or term.

I disagree. A central authority (or even ostensibly decentralized ones like Reddit power mods) making the decision to make content harder to find still fits neatly under "censorship".

That's one of the mechanisms by which content gets deprioritised.

But it's explicitly not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about social media companies deprioritizing content regardless of and/or because of it's popularity.

But it's explicitly not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about social media companies deprioritizing content regardless of and/or because of it's popularity.

I was thinking specifically of the reddit Powermods and their clique with that comment, along with SRS - mass downvoting was one of the ways that they got started manipulating content on Reddit. I am not sure how much further this conversation can go productively - our disagreement largely appears to do with terminology.

Coordinated downvoting is lame, but it's not that much of an issue. In a fair system a counter-coalition would form, and compensate or retaliate. The problem with the power mods is that they delete posts and ban people that say things they don't like (I've seen screenshots where posts saying harmless things like "hey, isn't it crazy that 20 people control the majority of top 500 subreddits?" get deleted, and the person banned). The other issue is their influence over admins, which allow them to ban entire subreddits with "wrong" opinions, and prevent a counter-coalition from forming.