site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   28474 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 11, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Does this apply to citizens themselves, or just owners/investors in companies? Frankly I don't give a shit about the privacy of the extremely wealthy financial class. They deserve to have far less privacy.

I'm much more concerned about the average joe being manipulated by psychologically invasive advertising that uses personal data to become extremely effective.

Income tax was originally only created for the ultra wealthy. It probably doesn't matter who the rule is targeted at right now, you can be pretty sure that it will apply to everyone within a decade.

And the ultra wealthy can afford to hire accountants and legal advisors to deal with the reporting rules. For everyone else it will be an additional burden to entry that makes business ownership and self employment more difficult.

And the ultra wealthy can afford to hire accountants and legal advisors to deal with the reporting rules. For everyone else it will be an additional burden to entry that makes business ownership and self employment more difficult.

This will cease to be an issue relatively soon, with GPT-4 likely being competent enough and future models even better at helping out an unsophisticated consumer who can't afford an accountant.

I'm not well versed with any licensing restrictions that may or may not be in place in the US, but an educated, well-versed entitity to advise you is now cheap and available via a phone.

I presume if the company is big enough that they're running into context window issues and such with a modern ML model, they can afford said human accountant!

Ooh that'll be nice! Not having to have an accountant. I can hardly wait.

I already use GPT for quite a few things, but I feel like I need to be using it more. Soon it'll be incorporated into the majority of online tools I'd imagine.

This rule could only plausibly apply to the ultra wealthy. Non-ultra-wealthy people don't own nominee shell companies.

The rule does not impact just conventional "shell" companies, by its plain text: the definition of 'substantial control' is broad enough to plausibly cover a lot of managers and administrators in small businesses. It might not get enforced that way immediately, and maybe (if not plausibly) even without a ton of middle management getting voluntarily identified to the federal government, but it's definitely nowhere near as clear as you're claiming.

Unfortunately, that "senior officer" is category is far less restrictive than it sounds from the name:

The term “senior officer” means any individual holding the position or exercising the authority of a president, chief financial officer, general counsel, chief executive officer, chief operating officer, or any other officer, regardless of official title, who performs a similar function.

And the rule makes clear that this is intentional:

The final rule adopts the proposed 31 CFR 1010.380(d)(4)(iii) with minor clarifications to minimize the potential confusion noted by commenters. The CTA makes clear that individuals who benefit from this exception must be acting “solely as an employee” and derive control or economic benefits “solely from the[ir] employment status.”

And :

FinCEN notes that the title of the officer ultimately is not dispositive, as the definition of “senior officer” and other indicators of substantial control make clear. Rather, the underlying question is whether the individual is exercising the authority or performing the functions of a senior officer, or otherwise has authority indicative of substantial control.

This is not something limited to just the ultra-wealthy or clear shell corporations; there are absolutely a number of small businesses where the capabilities attached to these titles in larger corporations instead are devolved to individual employees (some, like accountants and chief marketing staff, not even full-time!). There's a fair argument that FinCen won't enforce the rule this way, but it's ironed out in the rule.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats