This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm a huge fan of Yes Minister and frequently refer to it as my favourite documentary. It's extremely true to life.
Nonetheless, the power of the civil service lies in manipulation and persuasion. It's not actual power. They thrive with governments that are directionless, cowardly, and unresolved - which is most of them. But when the voters clearly want something and the government is determined to give it to them, in the end the civil service must meekly say - Yes, Minister.
Brexit actually happened, after all, despite the many attempts to sabotage it.
I think you lost the thread of this conversation. We're talking about the civil service deciding to prosecute someone who they view as a major political opponent. They're trying to put their political opponent in a cage and strip his name off the ballot. If accomplished, that is actual power.
Not only was the British bureaucracy caught with their pants down on Brexit the way the American bureaucracy was caught in 2016 (they thought it was already so unlikely to go through with the regular measures that there was no need to pull out all the stops), but I find it unlikely that the British bureaucracy feared something like Brexit in the same way that the American bureaucracy feared being dominated by Trump/Trumpists.
Stewart Baker's great line about technology is that you never know how evil a technology can be until the engineers who designed it fear for their jobs. Trump was something like that, but somehow, maybe even worse. It's likely totally irrational fear, but most fear is irrational. That fear, and the knowledge that they got wrecked when they only implemented regular measures, was sufficient that they decided to roll the dice as many times as possible on as many questionable charges as they could come up with, knowing that they don't actually have total control of any one process and can't completely guarantee success in any one venue. They've had this power of prosecution in their back pocket for a long time. They've always kind of known it was there; it's the classic stuff of banana republics. They simply haven't tried smacking it down and asserting their hard power in quite such a fashion, maybe since Ted Stevens.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link