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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   3437 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for July 16, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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There are no good utilitarian argument (IMO) against SOME wealth redistribution. History, science, and economics all support it; at least until basic needs are filled and everyone reaches a consumption equilibrium/ inequality falls bellow the level that historically causes social unrest.

People like me who want way more than some have a tough row to hoe, given how it's gone in this past BUT THIS TIME IT WILL BE DIFFERENT! This time we'll keep the market, come on, it'll be fun!

I can think of a few reasons. I think there are values of wealth redistribution low enough to prevent more charity than they accomplish. If the government donates $1 billion to charity/welfare, that won't accomplish all that much, but it will potentially make a lot of people feel that their obligation to be charitable has been fulfilled, preventing much more money than that from being donated.

More relevant--I think culture trumps all in the long run. If we have the option to implement policy X, which will prevent people from donating on average $1 to charity, but will also create $2 per person of value out of thin air, in the long run I wouldn't be surprised to hear that policy X does more harm than good. People donating to charity (and otherwise helping their fellow man) is a virtuous cycle that leads to more charity, less crime, and closer communities. No idea whether this is actually correct but it seems to be at least a relevant factor.

Charity is not about "helping your fellow man", if this was the case someone would notice it is ineffective for this purpose at best, counterproductive at worst, it would not take thousands of years to invent idea of effective altruism. It was always about impressing your fellow rich and showing how compassionate you are.

"Wealth redistribution" is not about helping your fellow man either, it is about avoiding situation where desperate starving masses have nothing to lose than their chains, it is investment in keeping your head affixed to your shoulder. Feudals like Bismarck, who always held longer term view than capitalists could understand it.

It is no accident that after some events that happened in 1917 labor regulations and social policies grew all around the world, that things like eight hour working day that were long said to be impossible suddely became possible. All the charity in the world somehow failed to provide it before.

https://twitter.com/RasmussenMagnus/status/1601925288736313344

We find that measures of revolutionary fear, the radicalization of worker parties and the formation of worker and soldier councils, substantially drove social policy expansion around the world. Importantly, the shock persists until today (even if its importance has sig. subsided)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/abs/reforming-to-survive/8513341F3D95D3392917AFC4CC211A31

This Element details how elites provide policy concessions when they face credible threats of revolution. Specifically, the authors discuss how the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 and the subsequent formation of Comintern enhanced elites' perceptions of revolutionary threat by affecting the capacity and motivation of labor movements as well as the elites' interpretation of information signals. These developments incentivized elites to provide policy concessions to urban workers, notably reduced working hours and expanded social transfer programs.

The authors assess their argument by using original qualitative and quantitative data. First, they document changes in perceptions of revolutionary threat and strategic policy concessions in early inter-war Norway by using archival and other sources. Second, they code, for example, representatives at the 1919 Comintern meeting to proxy for credibility of domestic revolutionary threat in cross-national analysis. States facing greater threats expanded various social policies to a larger extent than other countries, and some of these differences persisted for decades.

Charity is not about "helping your fellow man", if this was the case someone would notice it is ineffective for this purpose at best, counterproductive at worst, it would not take thousands of years to invent idea of effective altruism.

Effective altruism has always been around. Charities for thousands of years have been concerned with their own efficacy and how to improve it. Effective altruism just takes that a step further. I can't find it, but there's a great essay about how effective altruism is mostly "more things should be quantifiable." Previously things like life and death were so sacred that we as people hesitated to even definitively state that saving two lives is better than saving one.

It is no accident that after some events that happened in 1917 labor regulations and social policies grew all around the world, that things like eight hour working day that were long said to be impossible suddely became possible. All the charity in the world somehow failed to provide it before.

I mean, worldwide productivity increased drastically right around that time. That made the social change possible. We got machines to do our work for us. Also, I'm not convinced that people before then were actually working more than eight hour days. There was a period during the industrial revolution where everybody was working their butts off, but before then it seems that most people had a somewhat more sedate lifestyle.

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