site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   3261 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for July 9, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Narrative-crafting ability (a complex form of deception) is correlated with falsehood in the speaker’s statements.

My assumption is that narrative-crafting ability is correlated with the ability to influence public perception. Just like I'm not calling Superman a "false narrative" or whatever, the "truth or falsehood of Superman" is not my point, the ethnically-motivated influence on American public consciousness is my point.

IQ correlates with knowledge, but it can also correlate with a talent for deceiving other people with false or self-serving narratives. If you accept identity-driven bias, you have a responsibility to try to discern truth from deception or motivated reasoning

You're contradicting yourself in the same comment now. You just said truth and falsehood is not your point.

I should do these syllogism-type traps more often, they're neat.

So you don't even engage with my argument? I am not contradicting myself, my point is that narrative-crafting correlates with the ability to have the speaker's biases be internalized in public consciousness, those who are consumers of those narratives, that argument does not rely on the premise "Narrative-crafting ability is correlated with falsehood in the speaker's statements." Somebody who is poor at narrative crafting could have no less bias than than the person good at narrative crafting, but the latter gets to make his own biases "common sense" that could be no other way.

The correlation you are proposing is not my argument. IQ correlating with "a talent for deceiving other people with false or self-serving narratives" is not equivalent to "narrative-crafting ability is correlated with falsehood in the speaker's statements", it means the speaker is more effective at signal-boosting his own particular biases and falsehoods as common sense or collectively-held truths.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats