site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 3, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm curious—I'm not very familiar with Mormonism. What things do you love about its doctrine?

I could go on... I'll list a few things in no particular order.

  1. Eternal families--I like families and they don't seem like a temporary mortality-specific thing to me.

  2. Faith and justice--I mentioned this a bit earlier, but the idea is that God reveals light and knowledge to his children as they become better people. This goes hand in hand with the idea that justice is related to accountability. Someone with less understanding of a situation is less at fault for making the wrong decision. This is a big part of why people disagree about morality (rather than it being immediately and obviously self-evident to everyone). If morality were extremely obvious, most people would still not be very moral, and so they would be under greater condemnation. Instead we are given about as much knowledge as we can handle, and then once we successfully deal with our current struggles we get more knowledge and guidance on what to work on next.

  3. Physical reality and truth exist, and God did not invent and create everything ex nihilo--I've done my best in this thread to justify why I think it's theoretically possible that God could create evil, but the idea that God created evil is not an LDS belief. If God truly did exist independent of everything--independent of truth itself--then he could surely invent a universe where evil did not exist.

  4. Modern guidance. I think that people, including myself, are often bad critical thinkers. God sends all sorts of prophets, writings, and personal spiritual impressions to send us in the right direction, but personal spiritual impressions can be ignored/misinterpreted. Writings can be corrupted over time. There's quite a lot that goes into a "successful" (effective at promoting moral growth) religion, and not all of it is personal. Institutional design and cultural values matter quite a lot too. It can be helpful to have hard lines in the sand, from both a cultural and a personal perspective, that prevent people from going too far off track. The Word of Wisdom is one example, forbidding members of the LDS church from taking hard drugs (among other things). Of course the higher law matters much more than the lower law, but sometimes the lower law is the one that's harder to justify away, and the one more likely to make a cultural impression, further protecting people.

Of course its most profound benefits have to do with knowing that Christ is our savior. Hard to say more without some understanding of what belief to contrast it with. On a personal level, it has benefitted my life by giving me comfort, purpose, direction, and some good safety rails.