This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yeah, my take on it is that they threw everything including the kitchen sink into the first one as a mix of "what if we use this cool SF concept?" and that the huge success meant that people were trying to read deeper meanings into it than were there, so they had to pile on the bullshit about the next instalments (because it did so well of course the studio wanted sequels) having all this deep Gnostic whatever meaning, but it didn't.
It was just about "wouldn't it be cool if we did kung-fu with guns? in slo-mo?"
Another post-post-modern(?) reading I've seen that is popular with the trans lot is that the movies are about being trans (see the Wachowski Brothers becoming Sisters) but I dunno about that, either.
I don't think there's any deep inference going on to see the parallels between The Matrix and gnosticism. That's not even subtext, that's pretty much straight text.
For what it's worth the Wachowskis said they originally intended to make the trans analogy more explicit by having Switch be male in the real world and female in the Matrix (or vice versa) but changed their minds because they thought it would be too confusing for the audience. In any case you don't have to read between the lines too much to see how they intended a trans analogy (you're born into a body that's not your own which is a prison, you can set yourself free by taking a red pill [i.e. HRT], once you're free you can choose your own name and your body will look like you want it to look). One of the Wachowskis was so distraught by her gender dysphoria that she nearly threw herself in front of a moving train, lending a deeper resonance to the scene in which Smith holds Neo down on the subway tracks.
That's inside the matrix when they acquire elevated privileges and start adding arbitrary code. Outside the prison they look worse and have an artificial port in their body.
I know, I said "once you're free" i.e. after you've been redpilled.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I think anyone who feels alienated from the modern world will read their own personal struggle into The Matrix. https://youtube.com/watch?v=N2LkM-tBT4o
More options
Context Copy link
The Wachowski Sisters actually outright claimed that. The Wachowski Brothers, on the other hand, seem to have just wanted Rule Of Cool.
I've said it elsewhere here, but the 'trans allegory' of The Matrix is a blatant retcon. The first film openly postulates that it is sometimes necessary to kill innocent civilians that are too brainwashed to be saved, and then executes on that idea with the lobby shootout in which multiple hapless security guards (plugged-in humans) are gunned down in slow-mo. There's a good deal of revolutionary themes on display in that film; although the horror of that one in particular took a bit to really register with me on a subsequent viewing.
...Unless the Wachowskis really were saying "kill all TERFs", in which case they should really own it while I take the appropriate precautions.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link