This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yes but he faced court martial. And it was assumed Bligh would just on the basis he lost their ship.
The U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard burned and was lost in 2020... and the Captain never faced charges, indeed it was assumed he would not and they tried to scapegoat a lone Seaman.
Likewise no generals were court martialed for the loss of Afghanistan... or the fall of Mosul to Isis...
In any responcible military any major loss should result in charges and the assumption the responcible Commander will bear the burden of proof for his conduct.
Who was court martialed for the charge of the light brigade? The battles of Saratoga? Salamis? Or are you just basing this claim on vibes?
The officer, Nolan, who relayed the wrong order at the Charge of the Light Brigade, or at the very least, was unclear, was killed in the action, so escaped a court-martial.
Similarly, at Salamis, Xerces's brother was killed in early action.
That did not stop Xerces from administering a little discipline.
Burgoyne demanded a court martial to clear his name, but this was refused.
This may have been done to protect the Secretary of State, George Germain. North's administration was in trouble, and Germain was force to accept a peerage and step down.
So we've got two cases where nobody got court martialed and one case where some nameless guys got beheaded for trying to pass the buck. Not so different from blaming a random seaman for burning down the ship.
Meanwhile in the Titan case the CEO paid the ultimate price, so what's there to complain about?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link