site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 1, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

A conqueror can be a slave, eg slave-soldiers, mamluks and janissaries. An islamic specialty, though not exclusive to them.

How much control do you really have over your own life? Let’s say you decided to become an apostate. That would have consequences, perhaps even death, if you were ‘out’ and visiting pakistan. Although advocating for a ‘modern’ version of islam publically, expressing admiration for jews etc like you do here, may be enough, if you walked through the wrong neighorhood, pissed off the wrong people.

Therefore you are under constant threat of death, like a slave. The lowest english prole, as a free man, has more control over his own life than you have. It’s acceptable to you to be lower than the elites, but intolerable to be lower than the scum. Hence, your resentment towards them in particular.

No one likes to admit they are powerless slaves compelled by brute force, so you try to convince yourself that apostasy is a ‘sad’ choice you rejected out of your own will. As you say, personally you don’t even go for the whole package, you’re not convinced on a deep level, you stop exactly at the point where they apply the blade.

Therefore you are under constant threat of death, like a slave. The lowest english prole, as a free man, has more control over his own life than you have. It’s acceptable to you to be lower than the elites, but intolerable to be lower than the scum. Hence, your resentment towards them in particular.

I am under constant threat of death of being run over by a bus every time I go out. It doesn't make me tremble in fear. Same with back home in Pakistan. Everyone there is under greater risk of dying in a suicide bomb attack, but people don't let that influence their lives due to how rare such attacks are as well as more pressing concerns.

so you try to convince yourself that apostasy is a ‘sad’ choice you rejected out of your own will.

No. I am an open an proud Freemason, and Freemasonry is also looked at very dimly in Islamic Countries (due to it providing an alternative social group, thus weakening the powers of the mullahs etc). People have been executed for mere membership of our fraternity in Muslim countries. And yet I talk openly about it. I am not a prole and arrange my affairs to minimize my contact with them, they have next to no power over people like me, a single extra peep out of them more than their allotment and the military snaps their spine like a toothpick (yes, this is the military where drinking whisky is basically a stereotype among the higher ranks). Some minor lone wolf attacks happen from time to time and might hurt us if they manage to get past our private security but where we have our house back home there are so many people like me that we have strength in numbers. The probability of me in particular or someone close to me getting hurt, even if I lived there full time, are minimal. Generally though the people that die in these attacks are other proles.

if you walked through the wrong neighorhood, pissed off the wrong people.

Back home we have connections to the "wrong people" you don't want to piss off. And the "wrong people" by and large tend to be more westernized than the unwashed masses. Yes there are parts of the country I would not visit, but that's nothing to do with my belief system, I wouldn't recommend visiting those areas even if you are merely wearing western clothing, that on its own is enough to mark you out.

But the thing is, I would never ever visit those areas in the first place, what ever would they have to offer me?