This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Many of my coworkers and my wife are non-white immigrants. They are not making things worse. I don't think "everyone" is blaming societal problems on Indian and Asian immigrants.
Many people correctly blame some European crime rates on middle eastern and African immigrants. But here in America the middle easterners and Africans that I know have college degrees and houses in the suburbs. They aren't to blame for America's problems.
A lot of that is just having an ocean between you. So America gets the higher hbd of the population. Europe gets the lower class.
Yeah, they get unemployable refugees and we selectively let in Iranians and Nigerians with graduate degrees.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Opposition to high-skill immigration is usually framed in terms of "importing an overclass" as contrasted with low-skill immigration "importing an underclass." The former is a greater threat to your position if you are already at the top of the existing social order.
Wealth can insulate you from whatever dysfunction your new manual laborers have brought with them, but it isn't going to make your kids do better on the SAT than the Asian kids down the street of your gated community. There are also those who are motivated purely by racial animus (to wit, "I would rather live in Moldova than Wakanda").
I saw this in action when the UK govt announced a visa-granting program for Hong Kong-ers. The reddit hivemind that normally constantly fetishises importing as many low-/un-skilled browns as possible to own the conservatives was suddenly in uproar -- because these ones had the capital to buy houses and maybe even outbid them!
More options
Context Copy link
I think high skill immigration is a wage suppression scheme aimed at middle and upper middle class Americans. I think that the minimum H1B visa wage should be raised enormously. $60k/year is ridiculously low for a skilled worker that supposedly no American is available to replace. And their work restrictions are way too strict. They end up locked in at a job which helps suppress wages.
I've seen businesses refuse to consider hiring Americans fresh out of college and instead hire even more H1Bs. I think rules as written that's illegal, but apparently there's no enforcement.
On the other hand America gets to brain drain the world and import in really great future Americans and the parents of Americans.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link