Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 176
- 3
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Good work! A long while ago I came up with my own version that was a more meaningful translation to me personally. Here's my version, with notes:
Our Father, who is in Heaven,
I think "Our Father" actually gets across what you were trying to get across just fine: that "Father to us" understanding. To say "Our Father" is to say "my own Father who is also father to others".
Holy is your name.
I really appreciate the new information you've given me on this being a command rather than a description.
May your Kingdom come and your will be done on Earth, just as it is in Heaven.
I put the emphasis on the contrast between Earth and Heaven, and the desire for Earth to emulate Heaven. I often add to it "...on Earth, and in me, as it is in Heaven"
Give us this day our daily bread,
I never found a better version of this that wasn't also much more wordy. Like "give us this day all the things we really need" or something like that.
and forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.
Sometimes I would swap out sins with debts, but sins just works better for me. Sometimes I'll add in a new bit right here: "Father, if there is anyone who I have not forgiven, please show me now so I may forgive them." I honestly want to live up to the prayer and forgive everyone who sins against me, but I'm not always great at recognizing that I am holding something against someone.
And lead us not into the time of testing, but deliver us from evil.
I had heard before that temptation was more like a trial in the original, calling it a trial is probably more elegant than my wording.
Its a pretty darn good prayer. I think you can get a good English translation out of it.
More options
Context Copy link