site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 3, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

12
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Yet the burden of proof isn’t on the defendant. If the only video evidence we have is someone pointing a gun at him, I’m at least having responsible doubt…

Actually it is or it’s 50-50 depending how you read these Under Texas law, you need to prove the following elements to successfully claim self-defense:

You used an adequate amount of force.

You reasonably believed that the use of force was immediately necessary.

You did not provoke the other person.

You were not attempting to commit a crime when using force.

I think for this case he had to reasonably believe a use of force is necessary. I’m not sure how that compares to reasonable doubt of guilt.

No, in Texas, as in pretty much every state, once the defendant has produced some evidence that he acted in self-defense, the prosecution has the burden of proving, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he did not act in self-defense. Saxton v. State, 804 S.W.2d 910 (Tx Ct of Crim App, 1991); Hernandez v. State, 804 S.W.2d 910, 910 (Tx Ct of App, 2020).

Then if that’s standard he’s not guilty but I still believe at a greater than 50% chance that this guy probably was wanting a chance to kill a protestor and took his chance.

"Hoping he would be the victim of an unjustified assault" doesn't make it into a justified assault.

It doesn't matter whether the assault was justified -- note that it is perfectly possible for both sides in a conflict to be acting in self-defense. That is, it is perfectly possible that both sides to honestly and reasonably believe that the other poses a risk of imminent danger. It doesn't matter whether the danger actually exists. And, if I am not actually in fear, it doesn't matter that a reasonable person would have been in fear, nor that the other person was acting unlawfully.

Then you would have qualified for the jury. But just going out where trouble happens hoping that trouble finds you isn't "provocation" according to the law.