This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's the notion of power/safety seeking as a "flaw" that is the human trait here. Humanity aside, it's just what you'd do. Almost any task is pursued more effectively by first removing threats and competitors.
Everyone who tries an LLM wants it to do something for them. Hence, nobody will build an LLM that doesn't do anything. The sales pitch is "You can use the LLM as an agent." But no agent without agenticness.
Building an AI that doesn't destroy the world is easy. Students and hobbyists do it all the time, though they tend to be disappointed with the outcome for some reason. ("Damn, mode collapse again...") However, this is in conflict with making ludicrous amounts of cash. Google will try to develop AI that doesn't destroy the world. But if they're faced with trading off a risk of world-destroying against a certainty that their AI will not be competetive with OpenAI, they'll take the trade every time.
If DM/OA build AI that pursues tasks, and they will (and are), it will lack the human injunction against pursuing these tasks in a socially compatible way. Moonshine-case, it just works. Best-case, it fails in a sufficiently harmless way that we take it as a warning. Worst-case, the system has learnt deception.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link