This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Well they have, haven't they? At least people like Trump have, multiple times.
I'm sure I can find a twitter account with around 500 followers who has not disavowed white supremacy if I tried.
Would that be proof enough for you?
If now then why do we care so much about TRN? What's the difference?
Proof of what?
And the analogue isn't a 500-follower account who has not disavowed white supremacy, it's one that explicitly promotes it. Though, I'd imagine that such accounts are censored (or at least were before Elon Musk took over). In any case, I think it's reasonable to understand that any disavows of white supremacy would also disavow any 500-follower accounts promoting white supremacy.
More options
Context Copy link
You have it backwards, we cared about white supremacy so much that even Trump was forced to condemn a small grouo od extremists he had no ties to.
The question is why don't we care about TRN as much? What's the difference?
Because TRN is a nobody, and Trump was the president of the United States.
Seems like a pretty big difference to me.
The analogy isn't to Trump condemning himself, or to white supremacists present at Chrlotesville condemning themselves, the analogy is to Trump condemning the white nationalists present at Charlotesville. "TRN is a nobody, and Trump was the president of the United States" does not make any sense in the context of the analogy. If anything it shows Biden should condemn TRN.
The point is that TRN is not analogous to Trump because Trump kinda represents the Republican party and TRN represents, like 500 people.
A more accurate analogy to what TRN is would be to take some random bozo on Stormfront and say "Look at this guy! He's not denouncing Right wing terrorism. This means that the Right is pro-terrorism"
And my point is I never compared TRN to Trump, I compared TRN to the Charlottesville white supremacists!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link