Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 78
- 3
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Is jokes ruining the tone a common problem with the MCU? The only MCU movie I've seen is Doctor Strange and I had that exact complaint.
deleted
I think it's because everyone is a critic, and very few people are storytellers. Which is to say it is really really hard to craft an emotionally resonant scene that nobody laughs at for being silly and over the top*. It is much much easier - and safer - to make your emotional scene and then deconstruct it, and hide behind the irony if anyone laughs.
*Insecurity is an issue here, it is their doubt in their work which allows the mockery to take hold.
Honestly, I just think it's more of the dumbing down of media for an international audience.
"Sincere moment + smash cut to joke" is a very easy joke for most cultures to understand. Hollywood makes a ton of money overseas so there's not as much incentive to craft difficult sincere moments - the reward for them is proportionally smaller than it used to be in the past as more and more distinct cultures have more and more of a vote in the success of movies.
More options
Context Copy link
A large amount of creative output is dreck, of course, but man, when you find the good storytellers...it's worth the hunt.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
This is an old trope. Mocking-while-being goes back to ‘Arsenic and Old Lace’ and it was perfected in ‘Murder by Death’ (1976). It was a franchisable concept by the time Scream (1996) came around. There is nothing unique or original about the MCU, its only saving grace is that it doesn’t take itself seriously.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It's been a common complaint for a while. Ever since the 1st Iron Man over a decade ago, the MCU films tended to have a somewhat self-aware snarky tone to various extents. It was considered a strength initially, and plenty of the films, including the original Iron Man, used it well, but at some point its constant presence started wear thin on fans, due in part to how they would keep undercutting emotional moments. And again, that happened a while ago, like at least 5 years at this point, and from what I've heard, the MCU has gotten only worse in that regard.
That said, one MCU work that leaned in heavily to the jokes to positive reception (deservedly, IMHO) was Thor: Ragnarok which was more of a comedy with action and scifi than the other way around. I heard the sequel to that was hurt by the jokes, though.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link