site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

For example, the OG bathroom bill from North Carolina in 2016 set the inquiry as "The physical condition of being male or female, which is stated on a person's birth certificate."

I don't think this is quite "nobody", because North Carolina law does appear to allow for the sex on a birth certificate to be changed if:

A written request from an individual is received by the State Registrar to

change the sex on that individual's birth record because of sex reassignment

surgery, if the request is accompanied by a notarized statement from the

physician who performed the sex reassignment surgery or from a physician

licensed to practice medicine who has examined the individual and can certify

that the person has undergone sex reassignment surgery

ref. https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_130a/GS_130a-118.pdf

So this sounds more like an example of bathroom use being set to "strict evaluation" rather than self-identification.

The libertarian solution of simply making gender markings in government facilities advisory (and informative of if you're likely to find standing urinals) is I think obviously correct here, and people sometimes dressing in ways that make other people a little uncomfortable is an extremely minor cost to bear, versus establishing a regime of birth certificate checking to be allowed to go to the bathroom in a school or courthouse.

Yes I understand nobody is actually checking birth certificates, but that just indicates the dumbness of this law.

I'm pretty sure it indicates the dumbness of the false choice you set up. "people sometimes dressing in ways that make other people a little uncomfortable" is an extremely minor cost to bear vs establishing a regime of birth certificate checking, true - but not versus nothing even remotely similar to that happening, which is what we have seen in reality.

The libertarian solution of simply making gender markings in government facilities advisory

The libertarian position on trans people, that one has no legal right to force others to go along with your claims of your identity, isn't something I have seen trans activists champion. Thus this appeal to less government intrusion rings hollow.