site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Based on their gender? No. But yes, I believe that the parenting style advocated by social conservatives is inherently emotionally (ex: shaming children for stepping outside of the gender binary), verbally (ex: it is suitable to tell children you want to be quiet to be "seen and not heard") and physically (ex: spanking) abusive, and therefore people raised in a conservative household are victims of abuse, and people who raise children in a conservative household are abusers, although the rate at which the abuse is a) deliberate and b) realized varies. I don't think most conservatives and therefore people *want * to abuse or be abused, but it is an unfortunate side effect of the tenets of social conservatism.

I may have been unclear with that "Based on their gender" comment - I was referring to the abuser/abuse victim distinction.

However your post does actually make the critique that I made in reply to another comment more impactful, especially considering you are still using social conservative rather than republican. Social conservatism is essentially the norm outside of WEIRD nations, so when you say that all conservatives are mentally ill abusers you're also making some incredibly racially inflammatory and culturally insensitive claims. As someone who has experience with a lot of people from different cultures, I think most of them would find the idea that they don't actually like their culture and have essentially been tricked into not being a western liberal because they're abuse victims deeply offensive. The idea that every single woman who was raised in a traditional buddhist culture has poor self-esteem, anger issues and extreme emotional immaturity is just farcical.

This is why I believed you were not posting in good faith - your argument is essentially claiming that the majority of non western and non-white cultures are just systems of perpetual abuse, and that's so intolerant that it makes Donald Trump look left-wing.